I kind of figured that the Nurse Killer guy wasn't the Replicator, there was no way in hell they would show the guy 3/4 through the season. The ending was pretty creepy with all the photos of the BAU members and Zugzwang on all the pictures. I thought over all this was a pretty good episode. I liked the team interactions and it's nice to see Hotch and Reid pairing up along with Blake and JJ pairing up.
Also loved the thing Rossi said to the detective on the case, "do you want a hug" or something along the lines of that.
Though I'll say it that leaving the pills in the room was an obviously stupid move and you could kind of tell what was going to happen. Though it was pretty lucky the Replicator told him to kill himself and pills were still there.
Also for all those Agent Anderson fans he was in the show again, finally, along with Strauss who I can't peg anymore. She's an annoying woman and screws with the team and then the next moment she's helping them.
Anyway great episode, sucks we have to wait TWO FREAKING WEEKS until it comes back. 9.5/10
Gideon is never coming back, the cast can't stand him and his premadona attitude. Mandy also stated in January that he won't be invited back to be a guest star and also concluded by stating and I quote "they don't want me and I don't need them". Mandy is an idiot who thinks he was the best thing on the show but reality is the best thing was him "quitting". The show is better off without that pussy.
I enjoyed this episode. It went really quickly and it was a solid team effort. The only thing that kept bugging me was the way Garcia answered the phone. I know she's supposed to be the comic relief but the episode was really intense and her quips just seemed out of place in this instance. (I do love Garcia, I just thought they needed to tone her down here, I mean she's getting stalked too :/)
Overall another great episode, season 8 is going along nicely!
I had that thought but the next episode is Morgans past episode and you would have though the next episode would focus on the replicator again if it was Elle. I think we'll only hear mentions of the stalker until the end of the season now if the article posted on this blog is right. I prefer this arc over the Doyle arc but with the breaks between episodes and the sporadic mentions of the stalker it doesn't seem to be moving along very quickly. That could all change after this episode with the team seeing how close the stalker has been to all of them but it's looking more like we'll get either a quick (maybes rushed) conclusion at the end of the season or a cliffhanger. I'm sort of hoping for a cliffhanger with agents in danger rather than another happy ending finale, just because I like e tension and drama but if it does end like that I hope all of the team are in danger a la season 4 rather than focusing on just one or two people with the stalker targeting all of them all season.
A bit off topic but this episode got me interested in the replicator unsub so I hope he/she (you never know there might be more than one person involved) Continues to taunt the team.
I'm pretty sure the real unsunb is that cop that doubted them. The one who shook Morgan's hand and told him his partner was shot and killed while working a federal case. I liked the episode even though it was predictable. It was well done and the actors as always, did a great job. I guess I can't expect to be surprised after watching over 150 episodes of this thing lol.
To get some of the nitpicks out of the way: So, the guy used a stolen credit card to send JJ flowers. (What kind of flowers were they?) I'm surprised they didn't try to look at the type and try to think if they were somehow significant (like the type of butterfly was significant to JJ in "The Fisher King"). JJ and Reid seemed far too calm in response to the card that said "Zugzwang"-- or maybe it was the music that the music didn't help emphasize the horror at it. Reid got that Zugzwang message and the woman he loved turned up dead. Why did they not possibly take it as a threat to JJ's family? Why didn't she freak and immediately want to call Will and Henry and make sure they were safe? I know it sort of meant that the call was unrelated to Maeve, but you never know and its best to err on the side of caution. Also, Reid took the thing with his bare hands. What if there had been fingerprint evidence. The flowers were purchased with a stolen credit card. They didn't look in to who the owner of the card was that said it was stolen. FF to the end of the episode and they reveal that the same card was used to purchase the prepaid phone. Uh... Why was the card still activated and not declined when it had been reported stolen? It had been gone for 6 months. As I was watching I was thinking "Did the card only just get reported stolen 6 months later? What if the person lied? Did they not find out who owned the card? What if the person knew the unsub?" Back to the jet scene and we have them speculating that the unsub must be wealthy to be able to travel so much. Uh.. Hey guys, remember when you previously mentioned that he was using a STOLEN credit card? Maybe he, y'know, stole credit cards or money to fund his trips? Later on they speculate that he's very persuasive. So, maybe he is a con artist. They had a lot more profiling in this episode, which I appreciated, but it was flawed. They showed the unsub too soon. They could have just had the voice of the guy as he was about to capture the grocery chick (who looked and sounded a LOT like Maeve). I thought they were actually going to mention that she looked like Maeve, but no. The music when Hotch and Reid were searching the bedroom was distracting and didn't fit. Loved seeing Reid and Hotch in the field together and interacting though. The cop was too obvious of a red herring. His pouting at one point was really bordering on over-acting. Next point was that they didn't actually clear the house before saying "clear". They left rooms unchecked and it nearly got the cop killed. Also, since when has it ever required 3 homicides to give federal jurisdiction? Just crossing state lines is enough for that-- and they suspected it had. The cop thanking Morgan seemed a bit overdone and not necessary UNLESS it led to a build up of the guy sacrificing himself to save Morgan or returning the favor-- which didn't happen. I think the writer was trying to make the bit characters more interesting but was trying too hard. The makeup for the victims sans eyelids was terrible and I could easily see that there were still eyelids but they were painted red. If the victims were exsanguinated first (which, btw, only TWO of the people pronounced correctly in this-- FAIL to Reid and Garcia for saying eggzanguinate / props to Rossi and M.E. for getting it right), why would there be so much blood around the eyes? I mean, didn't they establish that the SLU was the one cutting off the lids after the nurses were dumped? Btw, was it just me or did it look like Angry!cop had red-rimmed eyes as if he'd been crying or near crying? That struck me as odd.
(nitpicks continued) Strauss is annoying. I don't like her trying to be the protagonist. She worked better as the antagonist. She's just obnoxious when they try to make her into a good guy. Her "over my dead body" thing. Ugh. Maybe she'll be offed by the replicator. What was the point of Garcia being at home and why didn't Hotch have all of her contact numbers to ask from where she was calling. Seriously, I don't get why they did that. It was not necessary at all and it seems to have been a waste of time/money to have them go to that set. Was there something that got cut? Were we supposed to worry that she would be attacked? The profilers not recognizing right away that the guy was not behaving right to be the Replicator bugged me a bit. They are trained to notice microexpressions and whatever. Also, generally outgoing calls are recorded by the police. The guy said he needed to make a call but did not say he was calling his lawyer. Even if he called his lawyer, some stations do record those discussions but just aren't allowed to use any of the information gleaned in the investigation. Now my biggest gripe. The pill bottle. WTF? Seriously? WTF? That had to be one of the biggest most incompetent... idiotic... No LEO with half a brain would leave a full bottle of prescription pills with a suspect in custody. They would find out his dosage and give him the amount he needed (or have a medical person do it). They would never EVER leave the pills there-- ESPECIALLY after he took his meds and no longer needed them. That was sheer stupidity and I wanted to slap the writer upside the head with a trout for that one. People get fired for less than that. Not only did Rossi leave the bottle, but then JJ and Blake left it, and then the cop who brought the phone left it. And it was sitting out there on the table calling attention to itself the entire time I was watching and I was like "Somebody take the pills away! He's going to kill himself!" even before he got depressed enough to kill himself. Btw, if they had not shown him kidnapping one of the victims, I might have thought it was possible that he was framed for all of this until he confessed-- which would have been much more interesting. The team established that the prepaid phone had been shut off immediately after the call-- so why then did Reid ask Garcia to triangulate it and she was able to find it? Did they not think it was odd that he turned it back on? Did the words of General Akbar come into their heads at all? "It's a trap!!" I was sort of hoping that there would be a bomb and they would either have to flee OR Morgan would get to dismantle the bomb. The episode just sort of ended abruptly. If they had cut back on unsub time and Garcia in her pajamas or something and Strauss being annoying, they might have had more time for the end. I forgot to mention that I didn't like Morgan cuffing the ginger guy so roughly. Yes, I get he was mad that the guy shot at them, but they had no actual proof that he was their killer. The guy's life had been ruined once before because they erroneously accused him. I thought they were supposed to be extra careful this time. Also, the blood on Hotch's photo would have dried and darkened and the eyelids would have shriveled up and stuck to the insides of that paper envelope. The flashback scene in the bar didn't work for me. The actor playing the assailant wasn't believable. We didn't need to see that to imagine what had happened to him.
What I liked: I think Rossi's line "Hey, what's with you? You need a hug or something?" was one of my favorite lines of his of all time. I laughed so hard. I replayed it over and over. Again, mentioning that I liked Hotch and Reid out in the field. Liked that they had profiling even if it was flawed. Liked that Garcia didn't automatically find the list of suspects for them and that Rossi figured it out. Anderson!! But all too brief. Loved the music at the end and thought it was timed very nicely for their arrival. Everyone got to contribute something in this one. I liked that instead of coming in and catching the guy with a victim, he was just wandering in the dark eating cereal or something. I also liked that this was one of the few times where they showed the consequences of what the media exposure can do when someone is accused of things. It doesn't matter if they are guilty or not, they are guilty in the eyes of the media and it can really destroy someone. I can't recall if they have ever done that on the show before. I wish the team had not seemed so unsympathetic to the guy-- but maybe that played in to his sense of outrage. I know I thought I was done with the nitpicks, but I felt Morgan was a bit- I don't know-- dismissive of the cop who was trying to make amends for being a jerk to him and to thank him.
For anyone speculating the cop is the Replicator-- he didn't have the time to travel around like that. He's likely got a 9 to 5 job. Also, the hands of the Replicator shown at the end were that of an older man.
I still can't figure out how he knew what number at which to call Reid from the payphone in "Zugzwang". Reid went to a different phone each time. How did he not run out of phones to use? Yes the Replicator might have known that Reid would go to a payphone, but how would he know which specific one and what the number was?
I'm thinking that maybe the Replicator is a freelance photographer or a private detective-- or he has hired a private detective to help keep tabs on the team. That might explain how the private detective knew that Maeve was going to that restaurant when it was Reid who made the reservations in HIS name. The Replicator could have been watching. Perhaps he hired the same private detective who followed Maeve OR he was that private detective.
Despite my nitpicks, this was enjoyable. It lacked some of the tension and sense of urgency I would have wanted/expected, but it still kept me engaged and it was refreshing to see a balanced use of the team.
CM having been preempted in many of cbs markets definetly hurt the ratings of this episode.
It too got under 11 million viewers,in fact it got even less viewers than "Broken" did.
CBS is slowly but surely driving down the ratings for these show.I know it doesn't make sense that a network would do that to one of their shows,but neither does it make any sense that cbs doesn't seem to want to promote CM.
You have CM either being preempted by a stupid basketball game or a stupid 2 hr survivor special.
We have to wait another 3 weeks for a new CM episode.The diehard fans are going to be aware of when the next new episode airs.But the casual viewers probably won't,bc I can't see cbs even bothering to promote the fact that after several weeks of reruns,there will be a new episode of CM.
Yesterday I sent CBS some feedback.I was polite,but I let them know I wasn't at all happy about their treatment of our show. I let them know we CM fans we're unhappy with the network's little to almost no promotion of our show.
And I also asked them why they couldn't on occasion give CM the spot that CSI has.Whenever CM had to be preempted from it's regular time. I pointed out the fact that CSI (unlike CM)was available on demand.
Now I'm not saying that my feedback is going to amount to a hill of beans,but at least they're aware of my thoughts about it.
I have a question that's probably stupid but I thought I'd ask here as people seem to be more lite than elsewhere.
Do networks in the USA consider a shows success in other countries?
I don't understand why CM is shown in Canada before the US, with it being a US show. Surely CM is being damaged in the ratings also because it's on in Canada first and online almost instantly after?
It does well in other countries it seems and in syndication, so when considering what to pick up for a new season, I was just wondering of anyone has any idea whether a shows success elsewhere is considered.
I know Downton Abbey here in the UK has been helped a lot by its US success. It still has good ratings for UK TV rating but the US pick up certainly helps. I don't know why I wondered I just did.
I enjoyed this episode, I thought its a great team episode and I kind of like the stalker case, even if we don't know much yet. I also love Strauss in the bad guy role, but then again I like when the team are at odds. I think there should be more conflict with the team and between the team, nothing unfixable but you would have thought after everything the team has been through, the tensions that come with the job and all the time spent with each other there would be more squabbles. I think season 8 is CM getting back in its stride. It lost its identity in season 6, I know a lot of people didn't like season 5 but it had some of my favourite episodes, season 6 saw CM trying to fit in with it's sequel and choosing story lines like the spy one that had no place in CM, season 7 felt like a start over that hit bumps because of Prentiss leaving and trying to figure out how to write new roles for old characters but season 8 is finally getting back to what CM does best.
About the ratings, no doubt preemption, no promo, hectic scheduling is not helping ratings. The fact that more people watch via DVR/streaming/on demand etc...all hurt the live+same day viewing.
BTW, CBS as no choice when CM is preempted for basketball or some local event as affiliates have the last word. CBS is doing the smart thing by not showing CM for three weeks as it would have been preempted in some markets for the March Madness tournament. When CM comes back it will either be on for 8 weeks without a break or with just one rerun/preemption.
btw noticed that everything on TV is down, Idol is down 24% from last season and from tvbythenumbers 'On FOX, American Idol scored a 3.8 down three tenths from last week's 4.1 adults 18-49 rating. This is the series' lowest adults 18-49 rating for a Wednesday since July 3, 2003 and its smallest total viewership for a Wednesday telecast since August 14, 2002' Same with Modern Family which had 12m viewers earlier this season and is down now to 10.59m (even lower than that on some weeks) viewers and it no longer does a 5.0 in the demo, it got a 3.9 last night. But like CM, Modern Family is doing great in DVR, CM had a 2.8 demo and 11.98 m viewers for 'all that remains' for the live + same day viewing but with DVR which is Live + 7 CM numbers goes to a 4.2 demo and a 15.61million viewers. Same for Modern Family that goes from a 3.7 to a 6.0 demo and 9.8million viewers to a 14.47 million viewers.
The thing is, the way to watch TV is less and less live and more via DVR and other means /streaming, cell phones etc..) Networks and ads buyers will have to change the way they do business soon.
About international success having any consideration when picking up a show. No it does not, at least not when CM and CBS are concern, it does for ABC who I think makes some money off the international market while CBS does on the home market, it is much more complex than that as CM is co-won by ABC and CBS and Disney too. But basically when it comes to the USA market CBS decides what stays on its scedule regardless of success outside the country. When it comes to syndication, not sure but I think CBS makes some money out of it so the longer CM goes on the more $ they can make. Of course all this can be offset by how much money CM cost to make.
Does the fact that CM is seen in Canada prior to the USA damage the ratings in the USA? Would have to look at statistics from illegal downloading to see how many of those are from the USA to really know but my guess, since we never see any mention of CM when it comes to shows that are the most downloaded, is that no it doesn't affect the ratings much.
zannej, I can only fix two of your nitpicks. First, the invoice from the florist showed that the selection was "seasonal", meaning the buyer let the florist make the selection of whatever was best in her shop. Ergo he didn't care what flowers were sent so they weren't part of the message. Second we've already seen him with a telephoto lens, he could have been watching Reid from a distance, read the number off the phone and called him from another payphone or a cell.
I just want to say I love this comment thread. I love the fact that everyone is passionate about CM. I too liked this episode. I can't wait to see more of the team trying to figure out the replicator. I thought everyone was really used well in this episode and though i do love Garcia i agree with some above that her little quirky saying do become annoying when they don't fit in. I love seeing the team in turmoil and how they handle things, hopefully there will be a lot more to come. Any word on a season 9?
No word on season 9, may have to wait until mid May for the TCA when CBS will announce what will come back what will not and what will be next season schedule.
TVbythenumbers is usually right. I'm not worried about CM getting a season 9 but I think CM may be moved from its 9pm timeslot on Wednesday to a 10pm timeslot, especially if ratings stays at today's level.
Now that I've watched three times, I think I can finally comment. It should have been a no brainer for me because I absolutely loved it from start to finish!! I just wanted to see it a couple more times because it was that d*** good. As for the meds, I too noticed that. But with 42.5 minutes for an episode, I can't blame Virgil so much as some others have (and with all due respect to those peeps and their opinion; I understand and once again say totally respect your opinion). The team profiling was great and we got not ONE but TWO instant classic Rossi lines! The first one most have commented about (i.e. "the hug"). The second, in my book, was the line about killing Strauss. Especially given what may or may not be going on between the two of them. ;) But I digress. Great ep. Solid script from Virgil, except of course for the one hole, and Rob Hardy, as usual as director, gave all of us CM fans a great visual. Another 9.5/10 in my world!
Super episode! Really glad to see CM upping its game and hope it's not too late. This was a more sophisticated and believable storyline, and the team was actually profiling! All of the team members got a lot of visibility as well. The unsub who turned out to be the stalker's pawn was also excellent; the guest casting has really improved for these past few eps.
Last point: I loved all the reference to old cases, seeing Anderson again, and the mentioning of Gideon. While I agree that MP did a very unprofessional thing in leaving when and how he did, I'll always be grateful for his contribution to the early CM episodes.
Go CM, the cast and show-makers! Keep up the good work!
RF, thank you for trying to fix two of my nitpicks. The flower one works for me. I didn't realize there was any significance to "seasonal". I wish they had mentioned that out loud though. Having never ordered from a florist I don't know anything about ordering flowers or what "seasonal" meant. I still wish I knew why the credit card was not declined. :P I know with Discover card they will call you and make sure your card has not been stolen if they see you making a purchase in another state that is not on your record of frequent purchases.
I started thinking about the payphone thing and figured that maybe the stalker realized Reid was going to new phones each time and found out where all of them were in that area and what the numbers were for the ones at each location and then would check them off the list as he went to them, and would have some database where he could look up the number of the phone Reid went to. He must have had to have him followed to know where he was going though. If he's willing to get someone else to do some of the work for him, I could easily see him hiring or manipulating a private detective or someone to follow Reid and the other people around. I still think that the private detective hired by Bobby Putnam was either the Replicator or someone hired by the replicator.
CMRT, Thank you for explaining the ratings. I know pre-emption is taken into consideration, but I wonder if they consider long breaks in between and lack of advertising. I really hate when they start to do that to shows and it seems they are doing it more to CM than they did in the past. Moving the time of airing is usually a very bad sign from what I've seen. I've had several shows that were canceled after the networks they were on started dicking around with the schedule.
As for Mandy Patinkin, I still have fond memories of him as Inego Montoya and I understand that he had some sort of nervous breakdown and such. I understand why he wanted to leave, but I don't like how he went about it and I really dislike how he talks about the show and the people after the fact. It's one thing to say "It wasn't right for me and I wanted to move on", but it is another for him to launch into tirades about how awful it was and to continue to insult it. Methinks he doth protest too much. I think he may have felt guilty initially and didn't like feeling that way and then built up in his mind this excuse of why it was so horrible to excuse himself and that with time it magnified and that he truly remembers it to be worse than it actually was. But he still doesn't have to trashtalk the show. That is just poor form. I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist, but I think he's got a borderline personality disorder or is bipolar or something. Which is sad and I hope that if he can get help with that someday.
I'm enjoying reading all the posts and am rethinking some of my first impressions I received in watching this episode.
I just want to address a couple comments made concerning Gideon being the Replicator and Reid's last payphone call. First of all, I think it's highly improbable that Gideon is the unsub. One of the reasons I base this on is that the unsub worked as a waiter the night of the dinner at the English embassy, both Garcia and Morgan worked with Gideon for several years and it's unlikely that they wouldn't have spotted him right away. Also, I agree with zannej, MP has boxed himself into a corner concerning his dislike for the violence on the show and would never agree to come back ... especially as an unsub.
It was my impression that by the time Reid received the "Zugzwang" phone call, that Mauve believed her stalker had stopped harassing her for at least a couple of weeks. It could be that Reid started using the same payphone because he no longer believed her stalker was a threat. Why he didn't start using his own phone at that time ... I just don't know. They never did answer why Mauve thought Sunday's were the only safe time for him to call her. That story had so many holes in it, it drove me nuts.
I think Sundays were days he usually had off of work.
Good point about the waiter at the embassy function-- unless that was someone hired / bribed by the replicator to take the glass. I actually missed that part at the end.
Yeah, there were a lot of holes in the story.
Another reason Gideon wouldn't be the killer is that if he were to ever turn to killing, it would most likely be criminals he was killing. He would have more reason to kill the criminals than to make life miserable for people he once cared about-- and I think he really considered Reid to be like a surrogate son.
I still don't think Gideon is the type to start killing others-- if anything, he would more likely kill himself.
Loved the episode, jaw-drooping at certain moments, and I'm still recuperating from the nearly heart-attack the ending gave me. If they don't solve this case completely by the finale end, as Erica has insinuated, I'm not sure I'll survive the summer! ;-)
To understand Patinkin's departure from Criminal Minds, is good to know a bit about what happened behind the scenes since the show started:
Criminal Minds was picked up to series by CBS hoping to fill a glaring hole on their schedule on Wednesdays at 9 pm, where nothing worked for them, as it was the timeslot occupied by ABC's Lost and, during Spring by FOX's American Idol, a very real ratings monster by then; they didn't expect a show able to beat any of those two, but wanted something able to hold its own against them, stabilize their lineup on that night, and give them a comfy 2nd place in the ratings. To give this show a fighting chance, they hired a well known actor, Patinkin, and Les Mooves personally convinced Thomas Gibson, still in everybody's TV radar as Dharma & Greg had been very recently canceled. The rest of the cast was filled with reliable actors, yes, but who still had very few credits on their resumes.
Even with ratings that were, for the time, not specially phenomenal, Criminal Minds did what was hoped, kept its own against American Idol, and then some, sent Lost packing to a new timeslot. At the end of Season 1, Lola Glaudini asked to be left out, Elle's departing storyline was crafted and aired, and Paget came to replace her during Season 2. Her character was universally hated, and the fandom for the first time showed to CBS and everybody else, that existed, and was loyal, and loud, and... have I said loyal?
Another thing TPTB may have learned from that sudden surge of the fandom was that Gideon was in general liked more or less, but Hotch and Reid were loved, and the love for them and the rest of the cast/characters was growing steadily and fast, so it was rumored that they wanted to reduce Gideon's screentime and the time to up noticeably the screentime for Hotch, Reid, and even the rest of the team, had come.
Patinkin has a BIG ego, looks like he manages it badly, and that decision couldn't have go down well with him by any means. His departure, may have had something to do with a real dislike of the show plots (believable knowing how deeply he immerses himself in the characters he plays), but the timing? In my opinion, that was his bruised ego deciding; he wanted to hurt Criminal Minds, was probably hoping to see it canceled (nearly happened, production was in a very real, very big trouble when he didn't show up to the first table read of Season 3; the wonderful writers room the show has always had saved the day, working non-stop to rewrite the 6-8 scripts they already had, so the Gideon character disappear from them). And to add insult to injury -still talking about his ego- Criminal Minds not only survived its first season without him (coincidentally, the season of the writers' strike), but from the next season onward, it started to shine brightly in the ratings world, one of the very few, rare shows, that didn't lost viewers from year to year, and even one that managed to attract some new ones.
His comments about Criminal Minds, once you know the above info, even if I can't swear it's completely accurate, read differently... doesn't them?
No offense, but I have a great deal of difficulty accepting the description of events as you record them, Maria. Would you be kind enough to let us know what your version of events is based on? I have never heard this before and since I've seen many fans express a devotion to Gideon I'm skeptical. Speaking from my personal experience, Gideon was initially the main attraction of the show, bringing strongly cerebral and deeply yet subtly emotional elements to each story, and I've always felt a gaping hole left by his departure. Due respect to Rossi fans, I personally felt, and still feel, that JM was a terrible choice to fill that hole. I know that Hotch has a huge following and that Reid is probably the most popular of all...he now is with me as well. I've continued to love the show, with all its ups and downs, despite the (IMHO) unfortunate casting choice of JM.
MP's departure has been most often, based on what I've read, attributed to some kind of emotional breakdown. Whatever happened, it doesn't excite my admiration for him as a person or professional...but there is no disputing his talent and stage presence. I'm not saying you can't possibly be right..it wasn't the first show he abandoned...but would really appreciate some evidence, since it goes against everything else that I've every read or heard about MP's departure.
I only can tell you that all of I've written is based on what people working on that set at the time explained, to me and to people I trust. Haven't added some things that may paint Mr. Patinkin's character in an even worse light, due to the fact that I didn't want to mix events with opinions, and it's difficult to differentiate those in some instances, specially when expressed by people that were rightly furious with Mr. Patinkin's actions.
Fact is - as recounted by everybody, media included at the time- that Mr. Patinkin had talked with several people of that set just the day before, promising to show up at that table read without expressing any concerns or problems whatsoever, only to do the exact opposite, going as far as vanishing on all of them so thoughtfully that they were lead to fear he had suffered an accident on his way, and inquiries were made with the police and several hospitals in the area to make sure he was unharmed.
That utter lack of professionalism alone is appalling.
Worse, if you know he is a repeted offender, as he pulled a very similar stunt when working for Chicago Hope (another production that suffered to continue due to the lack of notice from his part), and again, when working for Dead Like Me (this one was cancelled, curiosly).
You ask for proof: nobody from set wanted to be present when he filmed his swan-song scenes [1]. If you remember, he's alone in all of them, or with guest actors. Those scenes weren't filmed by the usual crew, but a different one had to be used. Nearly 300 people work on a production like Criminal Minds (hour-long broadcast TV drama), none talked/did nothing in his defense.
About his ego and how he manages it, enough people that have worked with him in different capacities in different productions have made public their views; I recommend you use Google to seek them out. I haven't worked with him and thankfully, unless the world starts spinning the other way around, I never will.
[1]That episode, "Doubt", had been filmed the previous season, but went unaired due to the terrible shooting in the Virgina Tech campus. Was reedited to serve as season opener, so the scenes of Gideon writing his letter to Reid and at the roadside dinner could be added; those are Gideon's swan-song.
I've read similar things about MP's departure and his ego, so I don't think Maria is that far off base, but I don't think we'll completely know the whole thing completely.
Gideon, I thought was over acted and I was glad to see him go. Season two is still one of my favourite seasons but my favourite episodes were the ones that didn't have Gideon as a focus. I loved the episodes in between MP leaving and JM joining the show, Seven Seconds IMO is a stand out episode. I like Rossi better than Gideon though, I think he has a good rapport with all the characters and since Godeon left, the show has become a lot more about the team as a whole rather than Gideon, his protege Reid and then the rest of the team. But I totally understand why Gideon was loved by many and MP obviously can act, but I don't think his acting style has changed that much now that he's on Homeland. MP handled his departure from the show badly, all the actors were polite about him but Ed and the show runners were very vocal about MPs inconsiderate actions and how they would never have him back in the show after he left everyone and the jobs hanging in the balance. Sally
I've heard all sorts of things about Mandy. I still remember on the behind-the-scenes features of season 2 how Shemar Moore talked about how Mandy didn't act egotistical and that he didn't demand more screen time. He apparently (at least to Shemar) seemed happy with what he was getting. He apparently never asked for more screen time or focus.
He later claimed that he asked them to tone down the violence but Ed said that never happened and that they gave him everything he asked for. It's hard to tell who is right or what the deal was. Clearly MP had issues with not communicating properly. Granted I know that CBS wasn't going to put out a DVD feature where someone trash-talked Mandy.
I have never heard anything about reduced screen time for him. If anything, I would think he might have been glad to have less screentime so that he could have more rest.
But I don't know. I have read that on other productions he screamed at other actors and even spit in people's faces. Some people even said he slapped other actors.
I really don't know.
I still liked him as Inego Montoya, and felt warmly about him when I saw the behind-the-scenes features and he talked about Andre the Giant. You could really feel the warmth and care that he had for the man.
Respectful opinions, and constructive disagreement is welcomed, but insulting/foul-mouthed, malicious, or just plain disrespectful comments towards anyone are not, and will be removed.
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BEST ENDING EVER. Just....brilliant. Bloody brilliant. It's on now, Replicator.
ReplyDeleteI kind of figured that the Nurse Killer guy wasn't the Replicator, there was no way in hell they would show the guy 3/4 through the season. The ending was pretty creepy with all the photos of the BAU members and Zugzwang on all the pictures. I thought over all this was a pretty good episode. I liked the team interactions and it's nice to see Hotch and Reid pairing up along with Blake and JJ pairing up.
ReplyDeleteAlso loved the thing Rossi said to the detective on the case, "do you want a hug" or something along the lines of that.
Though I'll say it that leaving the pills in the room was an obviously stupid move and you could kind of tell what was going to happen. Though it was pretty lucky the Replicator told him to kill himself and pills were still there.
Also for all those Agent Anderson fans he was in the show again, finally, along with Strauss who I can't peg anymore. She's an annoying woman and screws with the team and then the next moment she's helping them.
Anyway great episode, sucks we have to wait TWO FREAKING WEEKS until it comes back. 9.5/10
I want them to bring Giddon in to help and for protection. I loved him on the show. I only started watching it because of his character.
ReplyDeleteGideon is never coming back, the cast can't stand him and his premadona attitude. Mandy also stated in January that he won't be invited back to be a guest star and also concluded by stating and I quote "they don't want me and I don't need them". Mandy is an idiot who thinks he was the best thing on the show but reality is the best thing was him "quitting". The show is better off without that pussy.
DeleteI enjoyed this episode. It went really quickly and it was a solid team effort. The only thing that kept bugging me was the way Garcia answered the phone. I know she's supposed to be the comic relief but the episode was really intense and her quips just seemed out of place in this instance. (I do love Garcia, I just thought they needed to tone her down here, I mean she's getting stalked too :/)
ReplyDeleteOverall another great episode, season 8 is going along nicely!
Is anyone else wondering about the body at the end? Could it maybe be Elle?
ReplyDeleteI had that thought but the next episode is Morgans past episode and you would have though the next episode would focus on the replicator again if it was Elle. I think we'll only hear mentions of the stalker until the end of the season now if the article posted on this blog is right. I prefer this arc over the Doyle arc but with the breaks between episodes and the sporadic mentions of the stalker it doesn't seem to be moving along very quickly. That could all change after this episode with the team seeing how close the stalker has been to all of them but it's looking more like we'll get either a quick (maybes rushed) conclusion at the end of the season or a cliffhanger. I'm sort of hoping for a cliffhanger with agents in danger rather than another happy ending finale, just because I like e tension and drama but if it does end like that I hope all of the team are in danger a la season 4 rather than focusing on just one or two people with the stalker targeting all of them all season.
ReplyDeleteA bit off topic but this episode got me interested in the replicator unsub so I hope he/she (you never know there might be more than one person involved) Continues to taunt the team.
I'm pretty sure the real unsunb is that cop that doubted them. The one who shook Morgan's hand and told him his partner was shot and killed while working a federal case. I liked the episode even though it was predictable. It was well done and the actors as always, did a great job. I guess I can't expect to be surprised after watching over 150 episodes of this thing lol.
ReplyDeleteSPOILER ALERT --- The real stalker/unsub is Kevin.
DeleteTo get some of the nitpicks out of the way:
ReplyDeleteSo, the guy used a stolen credit card to send JJ flowers. (What kind of flowers were they?) I'm surprised they didn't try to look at the type and try to think if they were somehow significant (like the type of butterfly was significant to JJ in "The Fisher King").
JJ and Reid seemed far too calm in response to the card that said "Zugzwang"-- or maybe it was the music that the music didn't help emphasize the horror at it. Reid got that Zugzwang message and the woman he loved turned up dead. Why did they not possibly take it as a threat to JJ's family? Why didn't she freak and immediately want to call Will and Henry and make sure they were safe? I know it sort of meant that the call was unrelated to Maeve, but you never know and its best to err on the side of caution.
Also, Reid took the thing with his bare hands. What if there had been fingerprint evidence.
The flowers were purchased with a stolen credit card. They didn't look in to who the owner of the card was that said it was stolen. FF to the end of the episode and they reveal that the same card was used to purchase the prepaid phone. Uh... Why was the card still activated and not declined when it had been reported stolen? It had been gone for 6 months. As I was watching I was thinking "Did the card only just get reported stolen 6 months later? What if the person lied? Did they not find out who owned the card? What if the person knew the unsub?"
Back to the jet scene and we have them speculating that the unsub must be wealthy to be able to travel so much. Uh.. Hey guys, remember when you previously mentioned that he was using a STOLEN credit card? Maybe he, y'know, stole credit cards or money to fund his trips? Later on they speculate that he's very persuasive. So, maybe he is a con artist.
They had a lot more profiling in this episode, which I appreciated, but it was flawed.
They showed the unsub too soon. They could have just had the voice of the guy as he was about to capture the grocery chick (who looked and sounded a LOT like Maeve). I thought they were actually going to mention that she looked like Maeve, but no.
The music when Hotch and Reid were searching the bedroom was distracting and didn't fit. Loved seeing Reid and Hotch in the field together and interacting though.
The cop was too obvious of a red herring. His pouting at one point was really bordering on over-acting.
Next point was that they didn't actually clear the house before saying "clear". They left rooms unchecked and it nearly got the cop killed.
Also, since when has it ever required 3 homicides to give federal jurisdiction? Just crossing state lines is enough for that-- and they suspected it had.
The cop thanking Morgan seemed a bit overdone and not necessary UNLESS it led to a build up of the guy sacrificing himself to save Morgan or returning the favor-- which didn't happen. I think the writer was trying to make the bit characters more interesting but was trying too hard.
The makeup for the victims sans eyelids was terrible and I could easily see that there were still eyelids but they were painted red.
If the victims were exsanguinated first (which, btw, only TWO of the people pronounced correctly in this-- FAIL to Reid and Garcia for saying eggzanguinate / props to Rossi and M.E. for getting it right), why would there be so much blood around the eyes? I mean, didn't they establish that the SLU was the one cutting off the lids after the nurses were dumped?
Btw, was it just me or did it look like Angry!cop had red-rimmed eyes as if he'd been crying or near crying? That struck me as odd.
(nitpicks continued)
ReplyDeleteStrauss is annoying. I don't like her trying to be the protagonist. She worked better as the antagonist. She's just obnoxious when they try to make her into a good guy. Her "over my dead body" thing. Ugh. Maybe she'll be offed by the replicator.
What was the point of Garcia being at home and why didn't Hotch have all of her contact numbers to ask from where she was calling. Seriously, I don't get why they did that. It was not necessary at all and it seems to have been a waste of time/money to have them go to that set. Was there something that got cut?
Were we supposed to worry that she would be attacked?
The profilers not recognizing right away that the guy was not behaving right to be the Replicator bugged me a bit. They are trained to notice microexpressions and whatever.
Also, generally outgoing calls are recorded by the police. The guy said he needed to make a call but did not say he was calling his lawyer. Even if he called his lawyer, some stations do record those discussions but just aren't allowed to use any of the information gleaned in the investigation.
Now my biggest gripe. The pill bottle. WTF? Seriously? WTF? That had to be one of the biggest most incompetent... idiotic... No LEO with half a brain would leave a full bottle of prescription pills with a suspect in custody. They would find out his dosage and give him the amount he needed (or have a medical person do it). They would never EVER leave the pills there-- ESPECIALLY after he took his meds and no longer needed them. That was sheer stupidity and I wanted to slap the writer upside the head with a trout for that one. People get fired for less than that. Not only did Rossi leave the bottle, but then JJ and Blake left it, and then the cop who brought the phone left it. And it was sitting out there on the table calling attention to itself the entire time I was watching and I was like "Somebody take the pills away! He's going to kill himself!" even before he got depressed enough to kill himself.
Btw, if they had not shown him kidnapping one of the victims, I might have thought it was possible that he was framed for all of this until he confessed-- which would have been much more interesting.
The team established that the prepaid phone had been shut off immediately after the call-- so why then did Reid ask Garcia to triangulate it and she was able to find it? Did they not think it was odd that he turned it back on? Did the words of General Akbar come into their heads at all? "It's a trap!!"
I was sort of hoping that there would be a bomb and they would either have to flee OR Morgan would get to dismantle the bomb. The episode just sort of ended abruptly. If they had cut back on unsub time and Garcia in her pajamas or something and Strauss being annoying, they might have had more time for the end.
I forgot to mention that I didn't like Morgan cuffing the ginger guy so roughly. Yes, I get he was mad that the guy shot at them, but they had no actual proof that he was their killer. The guy's life had been ruined once before because they erroneously accused him. I thought they were supposed to be extra careful this time.
Also, the blood on Hotch's photo would have dried and darkened and the eyelids would have shriveled up and stuck to the insides of that paper envelope.
The flashback scene in the bar didn't work for me. The actor playing the assailant wasn't believable. We didn't need to see that to imagine what had happened to him.
What I liked:
ReplyDeleteI think Rossi's line "Hey, what's with you? You need a hug or something?" was one of my favorite lines of his of all time. I laughed so hard. I replayed it over and over.
Again, mentioning that I liked Hotch and Reid out in the field.
Liked that they had profiling even if it was flawed.
Liked that Garcia didn't automatically find the list of suspects for them and that Rossi figured it out.
Anderson!! But all too brief.
Loved the music at the end and thought it was timed very nicely for their arrival.
Everyone got to contribute something in this one.
I liked that instead of coming in and catching the guy with a victim, he was just wandering in the dark eating cereal or something.
I also liked that this was one of the few times where they showed the consequences of what the media exposure can do when someone is accused of things. It doesn't matter if they are guilty or not, they are guilty in the eyes of the media and it can really destroy someone. I can't recall if they have ever done that on the show before.
I wish the team had not seemed so unsympathetic to the guy-- but maybe that played in to his sense of outrage. I know I thought I was done with the nitpicks, but I felt Morgan was a bit- I don't know-- dismissive of the cop who was trying to make amends for being a jerk to him and to thank him.
For anyone speculating the cop is the Replicator-- he didn't have the time to travel around like that. He's likely got a 9 to 5 job. Also, the hands of the Replicator shown at the end were that of an older man.
I still can't figure out how he knew what number at which to call Reid from the payphone in "Zugzwang". Reid went to a different phone each time. How did he not run out of phones to use? Yes the Replicator might have known that Reid would go to a payphone, but how would he know which specific one and what the number was?
I'm thinking that maybe the Replicator is a freelance photographer or a private detective-- or he has hired a private detective to help keep tabs on the team. That might explain how the private detective knew that Maeve was going to that restaurant when it was Reid who made the reservations in HIS name. The Replicator could have been watching. Perhaps he hired the same private detective who followed Maeve OR he was that private detective.
Despite my nitpicks, this was enjoyable. It lacked some of the tension and sense of urgency I would have wanted/expected, but it still kept me engaged and it was refreshing to see a balanced use of the team.
CM having been preempted in many of cbs markets definetly hurt the ratings of this episode.
ReplyDeleteIt too got under 11 million viewers,in fact it got even less viewers than "Broken" did.
CBS is slowly but surely driving down the ratings for these show.I know it doesn't make sense that a network would do that to one of their shows,but neither does it make any sense that cbs doesn't seem to want to promote CM.
You have CM either being preempted by a stupid basketball game or a stupid 2 hr survivor special.
We have to wait another 3 weeks for a new CM episode.The diehard fans are going to be aware of when the next new episode airs.But the casual viewers probably won't,bc I can't see cbs even bothering to promote the fact that after several weeks of reruns,there will be a new episode of CM.
Yesterday I sent CBS some feedback.I was polite,but I let them know I wasn't at all happy about their treatment of our show.
I let them know we CM fans we're unhappy with the network's little to almost no promotion of our show.
And I also asked them why they couldn't on occasion give CM the spot that CSI has.Whenever CM had to be preempted from it's regular time.
I pointed out the fact that CSI (unlike CM)was available on demand.
Now I'm not saying that my feedback is going to amount to a hill of beans,but at least they're aware of my thoughts about it.
Plus it did feel good to get it off my chest.
I have a question that's probably stupid but I thought I'd ask here as people seem to be more lite than elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteDo networks in the USA consider a shows success in other countries?
I don't understand why CM is shown in Canada before the US, with it being a US show. Surely CM is being damaged in the ratings also because it's on in Canada first and online almost instantly after?
It does well in other countries it seems and in syndication, so when considering what to pick up for a new season, I was just wondering of anyone has any idea whether a shows success elsewhere is considered.
I know Downton Abbey here in the UK has been helped a lot by its US success. It still has good ratings for UK TV rating but the US pick up certainly helps. I don't know why I wondered I just did.
I enjoyed this episode, I thought its a great team episode and I kind of like the stalker case, even if we don't know much yet. I also love Strauss in the bad guy role, but then again I like when the team are at odds. I think there should be more conflict with the team and between the team, nothing unfixable but you would have thought after everything the team has been through, the tensions that come with the job and all the time spent with each other there would be more squabbles. I think season 8 is CM getting back in its stride. It lost its identity in season 6, I know a lot of people didn't like season 5 but it had some of my favourite episodes, season 6 saw CM trying to fit in with it's sequel and choosing story lines like the spy one that had no place in CM, season 7 felt like a start over that hit bumps because of Prentiss leaving and trying to figure out how to write new roles for old characters but season 8 is finally getting back to what CM does best.
I meant to say polite not lite, stupid mobile...
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteAbout the ratings, no doubt preemption, no promo, hectic scheduling is not helping ratings. The fact that more people watch via DVR/streaming/on demand etc...all hurt the live+same day viewing.
BTW, CBS as no choice when CM is preempted for basketball or some local event as affiliates have the last word. CBS is doing the smart thing by not showing CM for three weeks as it would have been preempted in some markets for the March Madness tournament. When CM comes back it will either be on for 8 weeks without a break or with just one rerun/preemption.
btw noticed that everything on TV is down, Idol is down 24% from last season and from tvbythenumbers 'On FOX, American Idol scored a 3.8 down three tenths from last week's 4.1 adults 18-49 rating. This is the series' lowest adults 18-49 rating for a Wednesday since July 3, 2003 and its smallest total viewership for a Wednesday telecast since August 14, 2002' Same with Modern Family which had 12m viewers earlier this season and is down now to 10.59m (even lower than that on some weeks) viewers and it no longer does a 5.0 in the demo, it got a 3.9 last night. But like CM, Modern Family is doing great in DVR, CM had a 2.8 demo and 11.98 m viewers for 'all that remains' for the live + same day viewing but with DVR which is Live + 7 CM numbers goes to a 4.2 demo and a 15.61million viewers. Same for Modern Family that goes from a 3.7 to a 6.0 demo and 9.8million viewers to a 14.47 million viewers.
The thing is, the way to watch TV is less and less live and more via DVR and other means /streaming, cell phones etc..) Networks and ads buyers will have to change the way they do business soon.
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteAbout international success having any consideration when picking up a show. No it does not, at least not when CM and CBS are concern, it does for ABC who I think makes some money off the international market while CBS does on the home market, it is much more complex than that as CM is co-won by ABC and CBS and Disney too. But basically when it comes to the USA market CBS decides what stays on its scedule regardless of success outside the country. When it comes to syndication, not sure but I think CBS makes some money out of it so the longer CM goes on the more $ they can make. Of course all this can be offset by how much money CM cost to make.
Does the fact that CM is seen in Canada prior to the USA damage the ratings in the USA? Would have to look at statistics from illegal downloading to see how many of those are from the USA to really know but my guess, since we never see any mention of CM when it comes to shows that are the most downloaded, is that no it doesn't affect the ratings much.
Thanks I was just wondering, I have no knowledge of how the US do things, but even we have regular CM adverts on living...
ReplyDeleteI think it would be such a shame if ratings don't start going up, it's such a better season than the two previous ones.
zannej, I can only fix two of your nitpicks. First, the invoice from the florist showed that the selection was "seasonal", meaning the buyer let the florist make the selection of whatever was best in her shop. Ergo he didn't care what flowers were sent so they weren't part of the message. Second we've already seen him with a telephoto lens, he could have been watching Reid from a distance, read the number off the phone and called him from another payphone or a cell.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I got nothing.
- RF
I just want to say I love this comment thread. I love the fact that everyone is passionate about CM.
ReplyDeleteI too liked this episode. I can't wait to see more of the team trying to figure out the replicator. I thought everyone was really used well in this episode and though i do love Garcia i agree with some above that her little quirky saying do become annoying when they don't fit in. I love seeing the team in turmoil and how they handle things, hopefully there will be a lot more to come.
Any word on a season 9?
No word on season 9, may have to wait until mid May for the TCA when CBS will announce what will come back what will not and what will be next season schedule.
ReplyDeleteI know that TVbythenumbers has CM as certain to be renewed.
ReplyDeleteAnd I believe they are usually pretty accurate with their predictions.
TVbythenumbers is usually right. I'm not worried about CM getting a season 9 but I think CM may be moved from its 9pm timeslot on Wednesday to a 10pm timeslot, especially if ratings stays at today's level.
ReplyDeleteCMRT,I seriously hope that doesn't happen bc wouldn't that drive the ratings down even more.
ReplyDeleteAlso when they look at these lower ratings,don't they take into account the fact that the show was preempted in some areas.
Yes, preemption is taken into account.
ReplyDeleteGideon Gideon Gideon Replicator Replicator Replicator
ReplyDeleteWho else would it be!!!!!!!
Now that I've watched three times, I think I can finally comment. It should have been a no brainer for me because I absolutely loved it from start to finish!! I just wanted to see it a couple more times because it was that d*** good. As for the meds, I too noticed that. But with 42.5 minutes for an episode, I can't blame Virgil so much as some others have (and with all due respect to those peeps and their opinion; I understand and once again say totally respect your opinion). The team profiling was great and we got not ONE but TWO instant classic Rossi lines! The first one most have commented about (i.e. "the hug"). The second, in my book, was the line about killing Strauss. Especially given what may or may not be going on between the two of them. ;) But I digress. Great ep. Solid script from Virgil, except of course for the one hole, and Rob Hardy, as usual as director, gave all of us CM fans a great visual. Another 9.5/10 in my world!
ReplyDeleteSuper episode! Really glad to see CM upping its game and hope it's not too late. This was a more sophisticated and believable storyline, and the team was actually profiling! All of the team members got a lot of visibility as well. The unsub who turned out to be the stalker's pawn was also excellent; the guest casting has really improved for these past few eps.
ReplyDeleteLast point: I loved all the reference to old cases, seeing Anderson again, and the mentioning of Gideon. While I agree that MP did a very unprofessional thing in leaving when and how he did, I'll always be grateful for his contribution to the early CM episodes.
Go CM, the cast and show-makers! Keep up the good work!
RF, thank you for trying to fix two of my nitpicks. The flower one works for me. I didn't realize there was any significance to "seasonal". I wish they had mentioned that out loud though. Having never ordered from a florist I don't know anything about ordering flowers or what "seasonal" meant.
ReplyDeleteI still wish I knew why the credit card was not declined. :P
I know with Discover card they will call you and make sure your card has not been stolen if they see you making a purchase in another state that is not on your record of frequent purchases.
I started thinking about the payphone thing and figured that maybe the stalker realized Reid was going to new phones each time and found out where all of them were in that area and what the numbers were for the ones at each location and then would check them off the list as he went to them, and would have some database where he could look up the number of the phone Reid went to. He must have had to have him followed to know where he was going though.
If he's willing to get someone else to do some of the work for him, I could easily see him hiring or manipulating a private detective or someone to follow Reid and the other people around. I still think that the private detective hired by Bobby Putnam was either the Replicator or someone hired by the replicator.
CMRT, Thank you for explaining the ratings. I know pre-emption is taken into consideration, but I wonder if they consider long breaks in between and lack of advertising. I really hate when they start to do that to shows and it seems they are doing it more to CM than they did in the past. Moving the time of airing is usually a very bad sign from what I've seen. I've had several shows that were canceled after the networks they were on started dicking around with the schedule.
As for Mandy Patinkin, I still have fond memories of him as Inego Montoya and I understand that he had some sort of nervous breakdown and such. I understand why he wanted to leave, but I don't like how he went about it and I really dislike how he talks about the show and the people after the fact. It's one thing to say "It wasn't right for me and I wanted to move on", but it is another for him to launch into tirades about how awful it was and to continue to insult it. Methinks he doth protest too much. I think he may have felt guilty initially and didn't like feeling that way and then built up in his mind this excuse of why it was so horrible to excuse himself and that with time it magnified and that he truly remembers it to be worse than it actually was. But he still doesn't have to trashtalk the show. That is just poor form.
I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist, but I think he's got a borderline personality disorder or is bipolar or something. Which is sad and I hope that if he can get help with that someday.
I'm enjoying reading all the posts and am rethinking some of my first impressions I received in watching this episode.
ReplyDeleteI just want to address a couple comments made concerning Gideon being the Replicator and Reid's last payphone call. First of all, I think it's highly improbable that Gideon is the unsub. One of the reasons I base this on is that the unsub worked as a waiter the night of the dinner at the English embassy, both Garcia and Morgan worked with Gideon for several years and it's unlikely that they wouldn't have spotted him right away. Also, I agree with zannej, MP has boxed himself into a corner concerning his dislike for the violence on the show and would never agree to come back ... especially as an unsub.
It was my impression that by the time Reid received the "Zugzwang" phone call, that Mauve believed her stalker had stopped harassing her for at least a couple of weeks. It could be that Reid started using the same payphone because he no longer believed her stalker was a threat. Why he didn't start using his own phone at that time ... I just don't know. They never did answer why Mauve thought Sunday's were the only safe time for him to call her. That story had so many holes in it, it drove me nuts.
I think Sundays were days he usually had off of work.
ReplyDeleteGood point about the waiter at the embassy function-- unless that was someone hired / bribed by the replicator to take the glass. I actually missed that part at the end.
Yeah, there were a lot of holes in the story.
Another reason Gideon wouldn't be the killer is that if he were to ever turn to killing, it would most likely be criminals he was killing. He would have more reason to kill the criminals than to make life miserable for people he once cared about-- and I think he really considered Reid to be like a surrogate son.
I still don't think Gideon is the type to start killing others-- if anything, he would more likely kill himself.
Loved the episode, jaw-drooping at certain moments, and I'm still recuperating from the nearly heart-attack the ending gave me. If they don't solve this case completely by the finale end, as Erica has insinuated, I'm not sure I'll survive the summer! ;-)
ReplyDeleteTo understand Patinkin's departure from Criminal Minds, is good to know a bit about what happened behind the scenes since the show started:
Criminal Minds was picked up to series by CBS hoping to fill a glaring hole on their schedule on Wednesdays at 9 pm, where nothing worked for them, as it was the timeslot occupied by ABC's Lost and, during Spring by FOX's American Idol, a very real ratings monster by then; they didn't expect a show able to beat any of those two, but wanted something able to hold its own against them, stabilize their lineup on that night, and give them a comfy 2nd place in the ratings. To give this show a fighting chance, they hired a well known actor, Patinkin, and Les Mooves personally convinced Thomas Gibson, still in everybody's TV radar as Dharma & Greg had been very recently canceled. The rest of the cast was filled with reliable actors, yes, but who still had very few credits on their resumes.
Even with ratings that were, for the time, not specially phenomenal, Criminal Minds did what was hoped, kept its own against American Idol, and then some, sent Lost packing to a new timeslot. At the end of Season 1, Lola Glaudini asked to be left out, Elle's departing storyline was crafted and aired, and Paget came to replace her during Season 2. Her character was universally hated, and the fandom for the first time showed to CBS and everybody else, that existed, and was loyal, and loud, and... have I said loyal?
Another thing TPTB may have learned from that sudden surge of the fandom was that Gideon was in general liked more or less, but Hotch and Reid were loved, and the love for them and the rest of the cast/characters was growing steadily and fast, so it was rumored that they wanted to reduce Gideon's screentime and the time to up noticeably the screentime for Hotch, Reid, and even the rest of the team, had come.
Patinkin has a BIG ego, looks like he manages it badly, and that decision couldn't have go down well with him by any means. His departure, may have had something to do with a real dislike of the show plots (believable knowing how deeply he immerses himself in the characters he plays), but the timing? In my opinion, that was his bruised ego deciding; he wanted to hurt Criminal Minds, was probably hoping to see it canceled (nearly happened, production was in a very real, very big trouble when he didn't show up to the first table read of Season 3; the wonderful writers room the show has always had saved the day, working non-stop to rewrite the 6-8 scripts they already had, so the Gideon character disappear from them). And to add insult to injury -still talking about his ego- Criminal Minds not only survived its first season without him (coincidentally, the season of the writers' strike), but from the next season onward, it started to shine brightly in the ratings world, one of the very few, rare shows, that didn't lost viewers from year to year, and even one that managed to attract some new ones.
His comments about Criminal Minds, once you know the above info, even if I can't swear it's completely accurate, read differently... doesn't them?
No offense, but I have a great deal of difficulty accepting the description of events as you record them, Maria. Would you be kind enough to let us know what your version of events is based on? I have never heard this before and since I've seen many fans express a devotion to Gideon I'm skeptical. Speaking from my personal experience, Gideon was initially the main attraction of the show, bringing strongly cerebral and deeply yet subtly emotional elements to each story, and I've always felt a gaping hole left by his departure. Due respect to Rossi fans, I personally felt, and still feel, that JM was a terrible choice to fill that hole. I know that Hotch has a huge following and that Reid is probably the most popular of all...he now is with me as well. I've continued to love the show, with all its ups and downs, despite the (IMHO) unfortunate casting choice of JM.
ReplyDeleteMP's departure has been most often, based on what I've read, attributed to some kind of emotional breakdown. Whatever happened, it doesn't excite my admiration for him as a person or professional...but there is no disputing his talent and stage presence. I'm not saying you can't possibly be right..it wasn't the first show he abandoned...but would really appreciate some evidence, since it goes against everything else that I've every read or heard about MP's departure.
I only can tell you that all of I've written is based on what people working on that set at the time explained, to me and to people I trust. Haven't added some things that may paint Mr. Patinkin's character in an even worse light, due to the fact that I didn't want to mix events with opinions, and it's difficult to differentiate those in some instances, specially when expressed by people that were rightly furious with Mr. Patinkin's actions.
ReplyDeleteFact is - as recounted by everybody, media included at the time- that Mr. Patinkin had talked with several people of that set just the day before, promising to show up at that table read without expressing any concerns or problems whatsoever, only to do the exact opposite, going as far as vanishing on all of them so thoughtfully that they were lead to fear he had suffered an accident on his way, and inquiries were made with the police and several hospitals in the area to make sure he was unharmed.
That utter lack of professionalism alone is appalling.
Worse, if you know he is a repeted offender, as he pulled a very similar stunt when working for Chicago Hope (another production that suffered to continue due to the lack of notice from his part), and again, when working for Dead Like Me (this one was cancelled, curiosly).
You ask for proof: nobody from set wanted to be present when he filmed his swan-song scenes [1]. If you remember, he's alone in all of them, or with guest actors. Those scenes weren't filmed by the usual crew, but a different one had to be used. Nearly 300 people work on a production like Criminal Minds (hour-long broadcast TV drama), none talked/did nothing in his defense.
About his ego and how he manages it, enough people that have worked with him in different capacities in different productions have made public their views; I recommend you use Google to seek them out. I haven't worked with him and thankfully, unless the world starts spinning the other way around, I never will.
[1] That episode, "Doubt", had been filmed the previous season, but went unaired due to the terrible shooting in the Virgina Tech campus. Was reedited to serve as season opener, so the scenes of Gideon writing his letter to Reid and at the roadside dinner could be added; those are Gideon's swan-song.
I've read similar things about MP's departure and his ego, so I don't think Maria is that far off base, but I don't think we'll completely know the whole thing completely.
ReplyDeleteGideon, I thought was over acted and I was glad to see him go. Season two is still one of my favourite seasons but my favourite episodes were the ones that didn't have Gideon as a focus. I loved the episodes in between MP leaving and JM joining the show, Seven Seconds IMO is a stand out episode. I like Rossi better than Gideon though, I think he has a good rapport with all the characters and since Godeon left, the show has become a lot more about the team as a whole rather than Gideon, his protege Reid and then the rest of the team. But I totally understand why Gideon was loved by many and MP obviously can act, but I don't think his acting style has changed that much now that he's on Homeland. MP handled his departure from the show badly, all the actors were polite about him but Ed and the show runners were very vocal about MPs inconsiderate actions and how they would never have him back in the show after he left everyone and the jobs hanging in the balance. Sally
I've heard all sorts of things about Mandy. I still remember on the behind-the-scenes features of season 2 how Shemar Moore talked about how Mandy didn't act egotistical and that he didn't demand more screen time. He apparently (at least to Shemar) seemed happy with what he was getting. He apparently never asked for more screen time or focus.
ReplyDeleteHe later claimed that he asked them to tone down the violence but Ed said that never happened and that they gave him everything he asked for. It's hard to tell who is right or what the deal was. Clearly MP had issues with not communicating properly. Granted I know that CBS wasn't going to put out a DVD feature where someone trash-talked Mandy.
I have never heard anything about reduced screen time for him. If anything, I would think he might have been glad to have less screentime so that he could have more rest.
But I don't know. I have read that on other productions he screamed at other actors and even spit in people's faces. Some people even said he slapped other actors.
I really don't know.
I still liked him as Inego Montoya, and felt warmly about him when I saw the behind-the-scenes features and he talked about Andre the Giant. You could really feel the warmth and care that he had for the man.
I REALLY HOPE THE REPLICATOR IS GIDEON! PLEASE. I NEED IT.
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