Wednesday, March 2, 2016

CRIMINAL MINDS Season 11 - 1116. Derek - Comments Thread

This thread is open for you all to post comments and talk about tonight's new CRIMINAL MINDS episode, titled 'DEREK', written by BREEN FRAZIER and directed by series start THOMAS GIBSON.

Hope you've enjoyed today's episode, and remember that the next new episode won't air until DATE!


  1. predictions for this episode were pretty much dead on. This was likely the first episode in Morgan's dramatic exit arc. Savannah is pregnant and now they are engaged. And this episode was pretty much all Morgan hallucinations and all torture. The team was barely there. The contrast with Revelations and Penelope is dramatic, because those two episodes had the team rallying around the injured team member, doing their job to save them/figure it all out. For this episode, they might not have even been there, since from what we saw, Morgan probably would have been able to pull the knife out of his hand, kill the final captor and drive himself to safety.

    Yep, this was a parting gift for Shemar for over the top acting and story. and show that he is strong enough to withstand ignited white freaking phosphorous on his chest, only to break out of his binds, use one guy as a shield and kill pretty much every one else in the room. It was like this was some over the top action movie and not a cerebral psychological thriller. I mean, for freak's sake, some shadowy organization hired former, rogue British SAS wannabe CIA contractors to torture Morgan for some unknown reason (though we know Morgan will be searching for his abductors in episode 17). And for what? That was freaking RIDICULOUS!

    My one nice thing to say: Thomas is a good director and has a good eye for visuals. It's too bad the story was ridiculous and over the top.

    1. you can't compare Revelations, and Penelope with this one. Those are masterpieces.

  2. Liked it a lot, not of the caliber of '100' but way WAY better than '200'!

    Thomas Gibson did an excellent job directing. Was not an easy episode for visual. Showing too much of the torture and you lose many viewers, so less was more and I liked that. Loved Danny Glover, he was excellent as Morgan's father.

    I'm no big fan of Shemar Moore acting, I think he is limited but tonight he pull a pretty good performance.

    The script was pretty good, only question is why would they target Morgan? Will have to rewatch to get this part.

    Absolutely love the scene with Garcia who shows up in Morgan's dream and when she is asking him questions and he expect her to find answers in the multiple databases she usually pull information from and she says 'my information is in your brain' love that!

    Of course there was not much team in this one, but it is called 'DEREK' then I expected it to be pretty much all about him and showcase Shemar especially if the speculations in the fandom is true and he will be gone after episode 1118. Still this self admitted Hotch fan did enjoy this episode that focused only on Morgan.

    I will give this one a 8.5/10, bravo, Breen Frazier for the good writing, Thomas Gibson for excellent direting and Shemar Moore for giving us your best work to date!

  3. I thought the episode was excellent..... Definitely one of the few real good performances that Shemar Moore has given on Criminal Minds.

    There were intense scenes yes... but for the most part it wasn't all torture porn...

    I admit I am a little confused about the who and why... but then again this episode is the beginning of the exit arc so I would imagine we're going to get more in episode 17 & 18....
    While there wasn't alot of the team in it... They were spot on when they were there....

    I liked how this episode was about keeping Morgan alive... How Morgan's vision of his father helped him... anchored him to life....

    I'm ok that Morgan and Savannah are going to get married.. and I'm ok that she's pregnant. Boy howdy do I want to see Derek explain how he knows they're having a son! LOL

    Derek Morgan has been intragal part of CM since day 1... and if Shemar Moore is determined to exit the show I am very happy that he's getting a good exit arc.... I would expect nothing less...

    My grade for this episode 9.5/10

    1. Wow, Barbara; I agree with every word you said! Very eloquently put. Straight to the point. When the team was there they were indeed spot on. And Morgan has been a huge part of this show, and he deserves this seemingly awesome exit arc! We may differ on a lot of subjects regarding this show, but I have much respect for you - as I don't have any CM blogs of my own and just for knowing what is what! You're a true fan lol you don't need me to tell you that but I just loved this episode and I'm glad you did too.

  4. You won't get an answer from this episode why Morgan was targeted. All we know is that some individual/organization hired these goons to torture Morgan for some reason. We don't know if it was for payback or information or just some crazy jollies. Whoever they are, they must be rich, because these type of men don't come cheap. The episode 17 press release said that Morgan would be looking for his abductors. I imagine at some point we will get some sort of answer. Whether or not it is plausible or believable is another thing entirely.

    I will say that "Penelope" had WAY more team. It was about her, but it wasn't JUST her. It was the entire team doing their job to find her shooter. Even "JJ" wasn't just all JJ, but rather the team doing their job.

    1. The team did their job looking for Morgan and in Penelope we had a lot about her, but the team was right there with Garcia while mostly, except for when Morgan did think about Penelope did she show up.

      I like that the writer didn't try tell the story like they did with Penelope, this was different.

    2. yes Penelope wasn't just about her, about a team job.

  5. Penelope wasn't kidnapped... So the team didn't have to search for her. What I never bought into in Penelope was that she was shot in the chest, near the heart... Hotch even tells Rossi that the EMT's said "it didn't look good".. but POOF she's miraculously out of the hospital within a day????

    1. Good point about Penelope, it wasn't the same as Derek, Garcia was not missing. The team was by her side trying to protect her while finding who tried to killed her.

      as for her miraculous recovery, well it is TV, things are speedup a bit just like how she can hack into a database withing seconds ;) :D

    2. Penelope was actually in the hospital four days. My point about talking about "Penelope" was the comment that since this episode was titled "Derek" of course it was basically just him. I just contrasted that the show has had episodes titled after team members, but it wasn't JUST them. It was still a team oriented episode.

  6. On the contrary... my how opinions and taste and differ so dramatically; no two minds are the same lol anyhow I only had three words on my mind... EDGE OF SEAT!!! I was worried this would be way over the top but the background on where these jokers came from has three episodes to show itself, so I'm just (for now) going to sit back and admire.

    hmmm what is there to admire? Oh yeah, the amazing acting, amazing directing by Thomas, amazing special effects and outstanding writing and story from Breen Frazier. My god how he has joined the CM elite. I can see him taking the writer's Rockie award from Sharon this year, unless she really knocks it outta the park with 11-21 "Devil's Backbone". Danny Glover was amazing, and I'm glad they didn't dwell on Carl Buford like in that awful JSB episode 8-18 "Restoration" anyhow ...this was Shemar at his best! As Erica said, when you share the screen with Glover, you gotta bring your A game. And that's all we saw for Morgan. To whomever is pissed that there wasn't a lot of team screentime, I understand where you're coming from, but I was preparing for this episode to be extremely Morgan-centric (it's called Derek; I didn't expect to see the entire team chase some Bundy wannabe around the country lol but I respect everyone's opinion) so I wasn't disappointed when I didn't see a lot of team. By the way, Reid taking the head-shot against that walking steroid was extremely symbolic and simply moving. Reid's rackin up a nice kill count lately! :P

    IMHO, there was just enough team to save him. Contrary to an earlier comment, this premise was a lot like 215 "Revelations" and 309 "Penelope" ...after all that was done to Derek's body, he would've died if the team didn't show up, but having been able to break free and use dirtbag x as a human-shield was a testament to his Weapons and Tactics training from being in the bomb squad. If you ask me, it was believable from beginning to end. Keep in mind, that's coming from a sometimes overly-optimistic, since-day-1 CM fan. I have a feeling 1119 "Tribute"(Paget's appearance) will shed some light on these new rogue pseudo-operatives...

    More may come but I give this a 9.95/10, and an A+.
    Btw, the promo for Beyond Borders is better than ALL of Suspect Behavior, so I cannot wait to see "The Harmful One" on 3/16

  7. I'm stuck on continuity. I could have sworn, and I can be completely wrong, that Derek's died in a store and not on the street. And did they say it happened in 1985? If they did, then they have his age wrong again. Profiler profiled listed his birth in 1973 making him 12 in 85.

    1. One thing I've grown to learn.. if you judge by continuity... you're gonna get a headache! Just look at Rossi's continuity lines.. And even Hotch's! LOL

      At least they were on their way 'to' a store to get Derek a gatorade... Maybe Derek's mind blocked out what really happened???

    2. Breen wrote this episode, and he is actually fairly weak when it comes to continuity. I could create a long list of his episodes that violate previous canon.

  8. I understand that this was (and possibly 1 of 3) Morgan's big episode. I certainly don't begrudge him of one, each team member and actor needs to have focus on themselves every so often. Add to the fact that he's most likely exiting the show, he deserves an episode or two. . .or three.

    What I liked: Hmm. . .Danny Glover did a better job than of being Morgan's dream dad than I thought. The two child actors playing Morgan were superb- the youngest one did a fantastic job especially with the scene where Morgan's dad is gunned down. The older teen actor reacted very realistically to Carl Buford putting his hands on his shoulders signaling what had and probably to come of his abuse. I liked that Morgan thought of his teammates in turn about their reactions or what he thought about them and their friendship. The team did a realistic and wrenching scene during Morgan's dream when they were staring at his service picture. Speaking of which , in the dream (I know these technically aren't dreams, but they aren't true life either) right before that, where Reid and JJ find Morgan's dead body, MGG and AJ (particularly MGG as the camera seemed to focus on him more-and as Morgan and Reid have had that brother theme running throughout the series, it's apropos.) responded so well, it drew me in. I also liked that Reid got the kill shot-for the second time in two episodes, and both were protecting teammates.

    What I didn't like: Shemar does a great job with physical scenes. That said, I don't think emotional scenes are his strength. His torment didn't ring at all true to me. I have to say, the two child actors playing Young Morgan, out acted Shemar, who isn't exactly a newbie with acting. I found myself rolling my eyes whenever he was being emotional. Also the obvious camera shots of his naked torso (showing off the heart monitor-why was that there anyways?) seemed to be more about showing Shemar's chiseled chest than anything else. I also didn't care for Garcia as an angel. That was over the top, even as a dream. Another point I have to raise my eyebrows, is directly after Morgan is tortured, he's able to pull off total annihilation? Ok, then. The last thing that I'll mention is was is really necessary to show Morgan digging through a dead man's stomach to retrieve a phone part? I get this show is violent, but ick!

    I think I'll have to grade this episode C- or D+

  9. I love Breen to pieces as a writer. But he sucks at continuity. Totally.

  10. When I finished watching it, I felt like I did after 200. Wow. But now, like 200, I've had an hour to sit back and think about it. It was good, but I thought a little over the top. A shadowy organization after him? That now garners an eye roll. The team was hardly there and they didn't figure out anything. They needed Derek to call to get them moving. And again they rushed off with no call to SWAT. You would think they would flood the area with cops.

    Danny Glover did a nice job, but I didn't buy the casting. Why would Derek picture his late father as a 60+ year old man. He would see him like he last remembered him like Elle did with her father.

    I did think Savannah was pregnant and she is. And I believe this was the beginning of the arc to say goodbye to Derek. I'm thinking he makes a job move because he doesn't want to die on the job like his father did and leave his kid fatherless.

    It was a good episode. It wasn't as horrible as 200, Forever People and others I can't even name. But it doesn't rank up there with 100 or Mr. Scratch.

  11. Oh, I forgot to add this. Why didn't Derek just take the cell phone and run? He still could have had his chat with his father as he made his way back to civilization. Instead he hung around so he could get into a fight with the bad guy.

  12. Why do my replies never end up in the convo I want them in? *shakes head* The joys of being elderly tech challenged.

    On to more important things........Like giving the shortest Rockie review in history.

    Excellent script. Powerful acting performances. Amazing directing.

    You figure out the Rockie grade. :D

    One quibble from my "paybacks are are a b****" mind. While I get the end scene, I would have loved to have Reid sitting next Morgan's bed, eating Jell-O

  13. Well it was OK I guess and I can see how some of the fandom might like it. For me personally, I am not a fan of graphic torture scenes nor od dissociative/dream scenes nor of Alias style action scenes such as where Morgan improbably took down 4 trained assassins so there wasn't a whole lot left here for me to enjoy. I don't begrudge Shemar a big send off from the show but I did find this to be on the whole gratuitous and over the top with a little tickle of soap opera at the end. It made me muse over the other times they have used this dissociation/dream trope - I really really hated Route 66 and Forever People and this was at least much better than those episodes. Some of the visuals were pretty good so kudos to TG for that. For me it is just a C-.

  14. * Loved it. Great music in opening scene.
    * SM was mostly excellent. Liked his defiant dissociative expression.
    * Torture scenes aren't for me as I can't dissociate actor from character, but stuck through them anyway.
    * Tyree Brown from Parenthood, young Morgan, was very good.
    * When bad guys wanted Morgan naked, I went between "ew!" and "woo hoo!"
    * Loved how Morgan used the guy as a shield.
    * Cutting the phone from the dead guy's body was nothing compared to finding out the phone had a password.
    * I even loved Garcia teeter-tottering up the hill in heels and halos. TG works magic.
    * I teared up when JJ and Reid found Morgan.
    * Reid now needs to come with a warning label.
    * Love love love TG's directing. The flames at the torture scene melded into the flames in the field with SM and Danny Glover; tilting the camera from the bottom up; overhead of Morgan in the field with the sunlight on his face; not a false move in the episode.

    1. totally agree. Breen can mix the drama and some sense of humor with Garcia teer-tottering in Morgan's dream, that was cute. the cast, guest and directing just awesome. The only thing i din't like is Savannah and Morgan relation.

  15. Fast-forwarded through torture/grimace scenes, but then went back and watched through, since so many other fans seemed to have survived it.

    Firstly, I’m glad for Shemar, because I think he enjoys this type of entertainment. So I’m glad he got to star in it, and I’m glad for anyone else who found it enjoyable. If I were a diehard Shemar fan, I think I’d probably have been happy.

    But I’m more a fan of Morgan, the character, and never more so than when I’m reminded that he is the owner of a hefty brain in addition to his brawn. I would have much preferred to see him solve an intricate puzzle, to watching him sustain gratuitous torture and dissociation. The little homage to profiling at the beginning of his time with his father looked promising, but it went nowhere. He saved himself with improbable physical strength and endurance, not with his MIND.

    I am a fan of TG’s style of directing (MGG’s too, but so very different). He allows a well-written story to tell itself, as in The Night Watch. But this was not one of those stories, and I felt like his talents as a director were stifled by the convoluted storyline. Nonetheless, there were some great transition and cut-away scenes.

    There were highlights and lowlights throughout. Shemar did well with the scenes with his father, but nowhere near as well as he did in ‘Profiler, Profiled’. Others of the ‘dissociation’ scenes were not as successful. Danny Glover is always good, but I didn’t think he had quality material to work with.

    Beyond that, I’m left to ponder:

    Torture is used as an interrogation technique. Where were the questions? Even the guy who arrived at the end was prepared to kill Morgan without interrogating him.

    Making me wonder. Is Morgan not the actual target, but rather a tool? Were they trying to get at someone else via the gratuitous torture of Morgan?

    Where and how did Morgan learn to dissociate? And how did he remain in a dissociative state while he was moving around?

    Why did that one guy spill his guts (verbally, before physically) to Morgan? Why tell him anything? It wasn’t exactly a deathbed confession, because he proceeded to swallow the SIM card to thwart Morgan’s attempt at escape.

    Is Reid the new marksman on the team? He didn’t just happen to take the kill shot, he was the one Hotch sent through the door first.

    Why didn’t the white phosphorous eviscerate Morgan?

    Why did the paramedics zap him when he had (audibly) a perfectly good heart rate? For a second, I thought they might have been in on it, because they were the ones who made him flatline. I kind of hoped they were, because it would have made a great cliffhanger.

    Not a disaster, but not my cup of tea. Hoping for a better sendoff in the upcoming episodes.

    1. I agree with many parts you mentioned because while I didn´t mind the torture to much I also had a lot of qustions but maybe they´ll come clear when we find out more in the following episode(s).

      What I have to say is that I was actually extremely happy about the paramedics using the defi this way because you rarely see it used right in TV. The defi is there to STOP the heart when it is beating to fast (ventricular fibrillation) which his heart did here. You can´t zap someone back to life if their heart stops beating, you have to give hlm and epinephrine to them.
      So, to answer you question: they zapped him because someone who wrote this sript actually wanted it to be realistic and that gave this episode a huge bonus point in my opinion :)

    2. No,actually, they didn't. They put a vfib rhythm on the monitor screen while they played a very audible rhythmic pulse in the background. You don't have a pulse like that when you're in vfib. Honestly, in a real situation, you don't sit and stare at the monitors. That's why they make sound, so you can be doing other things while your ears tell you how stable the patient's heart rate is. When it becomes unstable is when you look at the monitors. Listening to Morgan's rhythm, there's no way they should have reached for those paddles. That's why I mentioned 'audible' in my comments.

    3. Oh sorry i totally missed the audible in your text, I thought you were thinking that the defi is used when there is a flatline. I actually didn´t really listen to the sound, I just watched the monitor so I didn´t catch if it was unecessary considering his audible heart rate...

  16. I went through some tissues with this one. Thought Danny Glover was amazing. Saw more emotion in Morgan than I thought we have ever seen before, and that made me cry. I thought Morgan was abused at 13 and not 15? (Episode "Lucky") I loved the whole episode, thought about him cutting out the chip beforehand (reminded me of "Saw" 1); felt so frustrated when the password came up! :) I didn't like the scene with the kids - they were great, but Morgan's affect seemed off and not believable. Liked when they said he was lucky to know someone with a PhD in chemistry and to thank Reid. Loved the scene when they were all standing around Morgan's picture, and there were so many things he wanted to tell them - how important they are to him in his life. Why didn't anyone from the team say anything to him when they found him? Why didn't someone ride in the ambulance? I have always thought in general with the show that when something happens to a team member, no one ever seems upset/gets emotional enough unless they are just making sure to keep it together so they can find him/her. Maybe Morgan is going to take that position to run the "coveted" New York office. Not believable that Morgan all those "henchmen" on his own, loved the gore, loved the episode 9/10.

  17. I think we can all admit it was better than 200 and The Forever People, but that's no compliment. When it started, except for the torture, I thought maybe I was going to be wrong and it was going to be a well-written, well-acted episode. I think Thomas did some great things (except for showing many palm trees in what was supposed to have been Chicago), but he can't fix a script that doesn't hold together. Perhaps we will get the explanations for why these folks were targeting Morgan in a late episode but that doesn't help while you're watching THIS episode.

    What I liked:

    Thomas' directing
    The two actors portraying young Morgan
    Danny Glover's performance (but I will never accept that Morgan would dream or hallucinate his father as an old man, unrecognizable to him)
    Reid actually being at a take down and taking down the unsub
    The father figure bringing out Derek's training, attributes, etc. and forcing him to profile to save himself

    What I didn't like:

    No explanation, or at least no satisfactory explanation, of why these guys were after Morgan to begin with.
    The torture, especially the unbelievable phosphorous stuff
    Don't buy Morgan could have taken out all those guys when he was so seriously injured
    Most of Shemar's acting (it made me uncomfortable because I could feel him acting rather than believe his portrayal)
    Limited use of the team and their profiling skills
    Angel Garcia (while the information her scene provided was good, the scene was totally silly. I know most people probably loved it and the writer was probably going for some comic relief here, but I'm so over Garcia as she has become that I found her teetering on ridiculously high heals wearing a very phony looking halo to be a very obvious ploy for an emotional response. I don't like being manipulated that way.)

    So while it wasn't as bad as 200, for me it wasn't good. It wasn't anywhere near other episodes where team members were in jeopardy like The Fisher King, Revelations, Penelope, 100. I know Morgan fans will be pleased with it, as I would be of an episode that heavily featured one of my favorites. I'm tired of the writers ignoring what has already been established about the characters, getting so much stuff wrong and not being clear or explaining what is happening. A simple proof read would solve so many of the writing problems in Criminal Minds.

    1. We will probably get the explanation why Morgan was captured in the next episode.

    2. i love Garcia comic relief in this drama,sorry you don't apreciate some sense of humor

    3. There is a big difference between having a sense of humor and not appreciating something that is corny and overdone. In my opinion the Garcia Angel shtick was just corny. I found her acting in the more serious scenes much more enjoyable.

  18. I agree that this wasn't the best of the Criminal Minds episodes, but it wasn't the worst either. I am not a huge Morgan fan, but I was pleasantly surprised that they gave him harder material than what he normally gets. He tried, and while he wasn't always successful at making me believe him, I have to give him credit. I think TG did a fantastic job directing this one. I love when the actors in the show are able to step behind the camera. And I love that Reid was there for the take down (two weeks in a row!). A little sad that he wasn't there at the end in the hospital though. I totally agree with Rockie, I really thought Reid would be there eating Morgan's jello! I like Garcia when she is more toned down, so I found her toddling towards Morgan with a halo a little bit much. I was entertained for this episode and was excited to watch it, which hasn't always been the case for a few of the episodes the past few seasons.

  19. This was my least favorite this season. Not a big fan of Morgan. Did all that just so he could have a reason to ask Savannah to marry him? Not sure why people didn't like 200, but I thought that episode was much better.

    1. 200 was a huge continuity fubar. As for the story itself, it would have made much more sense if all of it's bondesque suspense of flying back and forth over the Atlantic and interviewing/profiling prisoners had been build around a character who not only was a seasoned profiler but also had a knowledge of Arabic: Emily. If 200 was Emily's story rather than JJ's people wouldn't hate it as much as they do but as it stands the whole story was given to JJ to seemingly justify the transformation her character undergone between her exit in 'JJ' and '200'. Since JJ's return in 'Supply and Demand' she and her story-line had been slowly turning into a smash between JJ's (personal life) and Emily's (work related & physical aspects).
      I'm not going to deny that 200 isn't cinematic because it is but it's not going to change the fact that the text was a badly written continuity nightmare with plot holes big enough to put an elephant through. If you want to love it, I'm not going to stop you, but I'm going to give you an advice: never watch 'Valhalla' and 'Lauren' together with '200'.

    2. My least favourite as well Susie. It just did nothing for me and the script was just too unbelievable. Hopefully next week will be better 😊

  20. It was better than 200 and while I'm not overly convinced that a drugged and gored man (in enough of pain to continue slipping between reality and dissociation) is capable of climbing out through the bathroom window and then sneaking upon his abductors (note that the process of sneaking out for a healthy, sane and clean of any mind-alternating substances man takes some time and quite a lot of stealth and at that particular moment Morgan isn't in a good shape)... Well mothers lifting cars to save their children...

    I'm far more interested in the aftermath of 'Derek' considering the rumors of an exit and the fact that they lined TG's, JM's and MGG's episodes back to back so close towards the end of the season. My only hope is that said exit isn't going to happen in a body bag. I'm more into taking early retirement (for which I think he qualifies age-wise) and spending upcoming few months at recuperating and preparing nursery scenario. Early retirement is something from which a man can come back, death not so much.

    And while in terms of profiling and focus on what the team is doing I would love if 'Derek' was more balanced like 'Revelations' I realize that it's an exit arch.

    1. Considering the show just had Morgan abducted and tortured, I can't see them killing him as well. That would be ridiculous piled on top of preposterous. I think this episode was a departing "gift" to Shemar (at least in the writers' minds), much like they thought the whole Emily super spy arc was Paget's departing "gift". Rather than craft a low key, but believable and plausible exit arc, they decided to go out with some sort of over the top, eye rolling bang or at least it was for me.

    2. Stranger things had happened in CM which is why I trust their writers as far as I can throw them (which isn't very far). See '200' which was supposed to be a plausible explanation why post season 6 JJ is progressively turning into a completely different character than she had been before season 6 and instead of something that makes sense and actually stays true to who she was before we ended with badly written variation on 'Lauren'. To be fair I still can't understand how one (RD) can write a script that's quite heavily basing on the events that took place in a script written by someone else (BF), someone with whom he had been working back when the episode they (BF) wrote was being put together, the very same person he was still working where he was writing '200' - for the love of God 'Lauren' wasn't a blink and you will miss it episode. How hard can be asking the man you're working with for help? I don't know: notes; versions of the script, picking apart their brain for information, same with the director... Please, RD had access to everyone that could help him improve that script and he went in with... that.

      Like I said before my never ending issues with '200' took over: stranger things happened. After episode like 'Derek' the exit itself should be more toned down and less dramatic, a journey to a conclusion that I can do something other than this job: retire and devote my time to my family; transferring to a different post; retire and start a non profit organisation. 'Where' matters less than 'how' and 'how' logically should be the opposite of 'Derek'. Key words being logically and should be.

  21. Unfortunately I really didn't enjoy this episode at all and that is probably the first time that I can say that in all the seasons so far. I realise that it is fiction. but it still has to make some sense. I can suspend disbelief and let some things slide but hardly anything Morgan did made sense and the behaviour of his captors defied logic.
    Some of the scenes were visually beautiful, such as when Morgan was with his father, and I enjoyed the performances from Danny Glover and the child actors but it wasn't enough to save the episode.


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