We open with JJ boxing and flashbacking and basically going nuts on her trainer. Does the woman apologize…NO she’s nasty and snarky. If the guy’s FBI report her ass. Ok, I have to admit I LOVED the plane scenes and Hotch’s fist bump with Reid… YES!!!!The case isn’t that bad… Somewhat interesting if not rushed… Kinda freaky with the whole freezing until dead thing and bringing them back.. Of course having JJ figure out every major aspect of the case is annoying to no end. Ok, I liked the twist that the cult leader isn’t the killer… But did it have to be JJ who figured out that it’s the person watching the kids who’s guilty?The rest of the case was rushed and had no cohesiveness. JJ all of sudden knowing that at 18 below aceteline wouldn’t explode is implausible… AND PLEASE… Hotch reprimands Reid after Elephants Memory but NOTHING for JJ???? The whole final 15 minutes with Askari and JJ… was stupid implausible and ridiculous… How TPTB can even attempt to have us believe this is beyond me… My grade… D- only thing that saved it from F was Hotch/Reid Fist Bump and good Reid!
What Reid did in Elephants memory was a whole lot different than what JJ did in this episode. The only reason Hotch accepted that JJ went in without backup was because a life was hanging by a tread. Reid however jumped in front of a heavily armed teenager and blocked the SWAT-teams and the rest of his teams shot to save an UNSUB. He risked his own life, broke the rules for something his team had under control in the first place. If JJ had not done what she did, the victim would probably be dead unlike in elephants memory where no life, other than the unsubs, was in dager. Besides, Hotch has now done exactly the same as JJ in earlier seasons, and if he were to reprimand JJ for this, he would be a hypcrite.
She was told to wait for a warrant, She was told to wait for backup.... When you're boss tells you that you listen or you face disciplinary action... it's that simple... The writer didn't even 'give' Hotch the opportunity to address this issue. As for Hotch, he has never done anything that was outside of the scope of acceptable procedure. Even in In Name and Blood when Emily went in after the boy and the victim, He told Erin Strauss that HE above all knew what it took to make a clean bust. The biggest thing is that there was 'no' after affects. JJ told her boss 'no' and that was that.
Yes he has. In season 5 episode 2, haunted. Hotch walks into the house where the armed unsub is along with his father and a little boy he had taken hostage. Hotch blocks the SWAT-teams shot. After this insident Morgan says he doen't trust Hotch's judgment anymore.
True but there was some acknowledgement that Hotch was wrong with Morgan statement, with JJ there was none, she decided to go against order and that was it. Maybe in a follow up episode Hotch will read her the riot act.
There was WAY too much JJ in this, and it felt just a ploy to show off AJ's acting skills and JJ's angst and strength. I mean, all of a sudden, she just experiences flashbacks and angst. Yes, I know it was the anniversary, but nothing else ever seemed to get to her. Hell, she was joking/bragging about being tortured to Kate and Morgan just a few short months ago. THEN she starts melting down on the job, even though little about this case should have triggered such a strong response. THEN she had to have that hallucinatory conversation with Askari, only to seemingly get control of herself and regain her strength in the end. There is just so much wrong about this storyline. Hotch had zero clue she was in emotional pain. He should have stepped in like he did with Reid in "Elephant's Memory", both to chew her out for going rogue and to offer his assistance to help her through. No wonder the case felt underdeveloped with some serious leaps in profiling. It was so focused on showcasing JJ. She needs some industrial strength therapy as she seemed like she was teetering on the edge of sanity. Of course, she will likely be back to super JJ next week and all will be over. Want to take bets? The only good thing is the delightful Reid. Yeah, I wish gentle, compassionate Reid wasn't directed toward JJ, but I will try and block her out and focus on him. I loved smart, sassy Reid owning the team with regards to statistics. He did say once that he feels the most in control when talking about statistics and he proved it. That fist bump with Hotch was cute and I was glad to see examples of their friendship. I do like Reid and Kate. Even though she teases him about his facts, it never feels like it is with malice, but gentle humor. I wish their friendship was developed further. I will have to rewatch the episode to get a handle on the actual case (which definitely took a backseat to JJ pain), because some stuff happened that didn't seem to make sense. But yes, JJ (even though she was melting down) seemed to make most of the key observations. This was a bad episode if you disliked JJ. Let's hope this is it for the rest of the season, but I am not betting on it.
I chose not to watch this episode, despite the fact I am a huge Reid fan. Because after seeing that one sneak peek I didn't think I'd be able to stomach the whole episode. And judging from the feedback I've been seeing so far I think I made the right decision.Now regarding that so called miscarriage story line. I can't believe that AJ Cook and Erica Messer, who both happen to be mothers,were perfectly fine with a story line that had JJ carelessly as well as unnecessarily putting her unborn child's life in danger.
DirecTV pulled a brain fart on me the last couple of minutes, so I need to watch it all again to give my thoughts. That said, on first watch and what I did see, I thought it was solid episode.
Ugh way too much JJ. I loved Reid's part and thought it was great he schooled the team in the jet! I loved Reid's and Hotch's fist bump upon Reid schooling the others. JJ ruined the episode though. And like the posters before me, Hotch chewed out Reid in Elephant's Memory when Reid's own trauma from his kidnapping ordeal (and then watching a unsub getting murdered) caused him to endanger his life and his team's but yet, JJ gets a free pass.
I chose not to watch tonight, even after seeing the sneak peek with Reid. Apparently I had the right idea! I would love to see some Reid & Hotch, so maybe I will eventually check out that scene. I would have loved to see a new CM, but with this JJ BS, no thank you. I did miss the others though (Kate, Rossi, Garcia)
i din't miss Kate at all, but i miss Hotch Garcia and Rossi. What about Garcia and JJ's frienship, what about a team job? It's a show with centered character or pairing ? JJ/Morgan? JJ/Reid?? Rossi/kate, Kate and the boys?what about even Garcia /reid banter?
I would love to see any elements with Garcia&Reid, or Kate&Reid, or Hotch&Reid--especially since I feel like we haven't seen Hotch&Reid in a long long time
I want to point out.... JJ had the miscarriage 4 years ago... and NOTHING not even a blip on the radar that something happened while she was away that was bad/traumatic/intense... NOTHING.. Then a year ago she's tortured and again.. for the last year NOTHING to show she's stressing over anything... No hint No clue until 'this'.... And what triggers it... a boxing match? This episode is a FAIL on so many levels and sadly Breen Fraiser will get the blame for it because it's his name on the episode... But I smell the unfine hand of EM behind this crud.
I agree with all of this Barbara. We're always supposed to blindly accept whatever these writers come up with without question.
Too much JJ and JJ solving everything but I actually liked the episode and laughed so hard at the plane scene. At least there was some good Reid in it. Interesting plot though it was rather hurried. I am relieved that it is out of the way though and I hope they do more Reid and give Hotch more time in future episodes and let JJ stay on a back burner. .
More Hotch Garcia and Reid time in futures episodes since this isn't a team anymore
First impression:interesting case that unfortunately felt rush so the writer could spend the last 10 minutes of the episode on JJ having hallucinations.Totally enjoyed MGG performance as Reid. Reid was definately the bright spot in this episode.I don't know what the writer intention was with the JJ storyline. To make us think she is losing it? That she should be pulled from the job? I mean come on, she was having flashbacks while DRIVING! Then at the end she is having hallucinations?! Maybe I will, one day rewatch and understand where the writer was going with all this.Why suddently JJ turned into Reid and knowing about 18 below aceteline wouldn’t explode? Is she now a genius like Reid that would retain all kind of facts she read? In order to showcase JJ everyone had to pretty much disapear. Was JLH in this episode? Saw her in the plane scene and in an interrogation scene and that was it.Sorry but the whole JJ thing was so over the top that instead of moving me it made me roll my eyes at all her drama and implausibilities.This episode was not all bad, LOVE the plane scene with Reid proving that yes he IS a genius! and that fists bumb with Hotch, of all people, was awesome! Speaking of Hotch, LOVE seeing him without his suit jacket! TG is one fine looking man!Pretty good scene with Hotch and Rossi interviewing the cult leader. I give this episode a 5/10 could have been so much better if the writer had ease down on all the JJ drama and keep it in the realm of possible.
Agree completely cmrt! If she's having the much trouble, including while she is driving, she needs to go on a loooong therapeutic retreat....and not be on the show while she's there.
Gideon was off the job after Boston and when he came back Hotch had to evaluate him. Hotch was off the job for 34 days after Foyet's attack. Reid did seek out help after Hankel and his subsequent drug addiction. So one would think that after being tortured she would have seen a shrink and have the all clear before coming back to work. Imagine if her flashback had happened while someone had a gun pointed at her or a teammate?If the writers wants to make this beliveable they need to acknowledge she need help and have her seek some.
@ CMRT, JJ did have some help, and was cleared. It was referenced in the beginning of 9-15, "Mr & Mrs Anderson". When the team was gathering around the Round Table, it was said by JJ to the group that Will had made sure she was okay before allowing her to return, including the DIOC. As a side bar to that, and for further reference, What does the term DIOC mean?
My original comment was far too malicious... All of this hatred towards JJ makes me very sad. She is a vital part of my favourite show, a show which has helped me overcome many obstacles in my life. I think after what she went through in 2010-2011, she deserves some character development. I just wish people would be more open-minded. Ill bet a lot of the same people who want to see AJ Cook removed from the show forever are the same people who whined during her Season 6 layoff... Of course when the re-hired her, they couldn't bring back the exact same character, or else TPTB would've just fired her all over again. Unfortunately, her character had to change, and change seems to be something that a lot of fans of this show can't handle, and that makes me sad. IMO, it has been for the better. Good character development and Reid made the perfect sounding board, considering their friendship, his knowledge of PTSD and his personal experience with it (where do I even start) I think she is a talented, beautiful actress who deserves every Joule of success she has. This episode was written by the same person who wrote "52 Pickup," "Pleasure Is My Business," "The Internet Is Forever," and "God Complex." Those were all amazing episodes with in-depth, complex profiling where all the team members contributed, and I think this episode is just as amazing as those and has the same qualities. A for "The Forever People," and A+ for JJ's storyline and AJ's acting.
I agree entirely. I absolutely loved this episode, and I have no words for AJ's performance. Just wow. A++
There was very little actual profiling in this episode, because a good chunk of it was devoted to JJ angst or JJ insights that pretty much solved the case on their own. It's not change itself that many fans can't handle, but it is the fact that JJ now dominates this show to such an imbalanced degree and has for a few years now. My problem with JJ wasn't initially with her character change, but just how much of her was pushed in our face. Now of course I am sick of her character, because of how she is written AND how much of her there is. And that is not likely to change for me.
It is nice that you can see JJ as a role model.. Sadly she is an implausible role model.. Changing a character does not have to mean you come up with such a story line that has no basis in reality. From 200 through to now JJ has become a one woman BAU and for many fans that's a sore point. Over the last few years any friendship between JJ and Reid has been none existent. Last year especially she was dismissive towards him. Even in this episode he's their trying to be her friend and she doens't give so much as a 'thank you Spence' she just walks away from him. She appeared angry and annoyed that he even asked how she was doing. She scenes were stiff and wooden and the writing was just terrible. Having her blatantly disobey a direct order to not proceed should get her at minimum suspended or even fired. Her hallucinations tell me she needs deep therapy and fast. There was next to NO profiling in the episode. JJ made all the pertinent deductions starting with figuring it was a cult 8 minutes into the episode. The flashbacks throughout the episode were just distracting. And the case itself was disjointed and felt rushed to make room for the JJ subplot. There were aspects that came out of nowhere about the cult and victims. The writing on this episode was just poor... Now whether the poor quality of writing is because the writers are all up for new contracts too? I don't know... but Nothing about this episode was even remotely CM like...
same way JJ and Garcia old relation dissapeared too.
to severe CMaddict,Just pointing problems with storylines isn't hatred, it is called giving an honest opinion about a writer's work.Yes, Breen is talented, he did write two of my favorite episodes, 'Pleasure is my Business' and '52 pickup' but tonight was not up to par. You disagree? Fine but do not call this hatred, no one here posted any hate towards JJ, just well thought out comments, for most, as to what worked and what didn't.
Severe CMaddict It is extremely, EXTREMELY disrespectful of you to characterize those who disagree with you as whiners.
Barbara Reilly: You say that JJ "appeared angry and annoyed that he even asked how she was doing" and that the scenes were "stiff and wooden." I need to say that i dissagree with you. JJ seemed, to me at least, like she was sort of panicking because of the way she felt, and she seemed scared and vulnerable. It seemed to me that she wasn't angry that Spencer asked how she was doing, but rather scared and afraid to aknowlege how she was truly feeling, and scared to tell the truth and the secret that she had held for so long. She was just upset. And as for the scenes she performed that you refered to as wooden and stiff, I think you are too quick to judge. To me the acting was good, she's a good actor, really. I wonder if it was Reid who experienced this "drama"/ storyline, or maybe Hotch or Rossi, that the comments people have given wouldn't have been half as critical. By the way, I didn't like that JJ didn't say thank you to Reid either, but I think also that the acting tried to show us that she said "thank you" without words, she expressed her gratitude with her face and her glance, and Spencer understood that. Frankly, research on human behavour and feelings show that the word "thank you" is one of the most difficult things to say to another person when they have helped you through something emotionally. I also agree that it's kind of strange that they are so concerned with showing Reid's and JJ's close friendship when that relationship between them has been none existent for years. I do agree though, about the the severe lack of profiling and depth in the case. It was a good idea, but where is the psychology and the unsubs behavour and reason for doing what he did? Also, the balance within the team could yet again been better, there was almost no Rossi or Hotch, but then again I know that Rossi is going to have a centric episode soon. BUT, there wasn't that much unsub though, which was good.
Reid was clueless that all this angst was about the miscarriage and not so much the torture from the previous year as he thought. You think she was scared? And I think she was wooden and angry that Reid or anyone saw a crack in her armour...And I can truly say that it's not just because it was 'JJ' that I didn't like this. I would have disliked it if ANY of the cast had an event like this... we had not seen 'anything' for years and then POOF it's all front and center... Hotch, Reid, Penelope, Morgan, Emily all had tramatic events.. and over the episodes following there were glimpses of 'cracks' of just how badly the events affected them. That is the difference between them and what we saw with JJ.
Yeah, i know and i agree with you there. The writing was bad, but how would you have reacted if they had written her PTSD in little pieces here and there over a couple of episodes like they did with Reid's, Emily's and Hotch's PTSD? You would probably have complained about it being too much JJ. It appears as though nothing the JJ character does would get your approval, because the character has been ruined for you and for many else, and I do understand that, because I am one of them, but at least I acknowledge that she isn't all bad and horrible, and that she too can be seen during the episode without wanting to roll my eyes, or puke at the screen. I am very sorry if I come out as harsh or rude saying this, or if I have offended you in any way, I need you to understand that I just disagree with you, that's all. I hope there are no hard feelings between us?
Those other episodes you mentioned had balanced screen time for the team with everyone's participation in solving the cases. THIS episode had JJ with the side story of her PTSD (first glimpse we've seen of it after all this time) and yet she was involved in every aspect of the case while others on the team had very little to do. I'm not opposed to the various team members getting an episode here and there that focuses more on them than the rest of the team, but this was so over the top it was ridiculous. And I'm sick to death of the writers not writing Hotch as the team leader any more. In so many episodes he and Rossi may as well not even be there. Just having JJ deal with these disturbing incidents in her past would have been enough, but this episode had her figuring everything out, interviewing suspects and taking down the unsub while the others barely seemed to be around. It was just too much JJ and too unbelievable and frankly, too unnecessary. JJ's had plenty of focus the past 3 seasons, to the detriment of other cast members. Her interview regarding this episode said that she was not a super hero, she was human, but what did this episode do? It portrayed her as a superhero who even suffering from PTSD to the point of hallucinations was able to single-handedly solve the case and capture the unsub while the others hung out at the police station and drank coffee, I guess.
Liv, You are entirely wrong on how I would have assessed JJ if she had shown cracks in the years proceeding this episode. Or even shown cracks going back to 200. I was always a big JJ fan she being second only to Hotch for me. However, what the writers have done with the character to me is unforgivable. At this point, I think they need to back her off, acknowledge she's having difficulty. Maybe even have Hotch move her 'back' to being Media Liaison to a certain degree. Allow her to revert 'back' to what she was while she deals with the trauma she's experienced. That would allow her to remain on the team, take a back seat and be able to deal with her own emotional turmoil...
i liked JJ in previous seasons: soft,caring, great worker, semi profiler, she could be at her office or on the field....since she is a profiler she becomes distant...kind of arrogant, inexpresive...please hope writers don't do the same mistake they did with Blake: she barely have any contact with the team just with Reid and Rossi. I like the team, as a team, i really miss Prentiss the girls has excelents scenes also. That is the reason i like previous seasons better: remember revelations? penelope? damaged? ect etc, any time one member got in trouble the OTHERs were there not just Morgan,..or just Rossi etc etc
Yeah, i totally agree with you, when one team member was in trouble, the episode focused on how the TEAM noticed, and not just one member, the episodes like penelope, damaged and so on did also not focus only about the one person in trouble, but it also focused greatly on the team too. Before this show was about a team, but it's not anymore. By the way, God how I miss Emiliy Prentiss! The show has not been itself ever since she left. (Although it hasn't been itself for a really long time now, and before she left too.)
Good point about before the whole team would have been involved and helping the team member in trouble. now only Reid noticed? They are profilers, trained to noticed all sort of abnormal behavior yet only Reid noticed? Maybe they should all get refreshing course on profiling.
Yes, the way it used to be when they all were supporting each other was warm and caring and felt very real. You could tell that these folks actually liked hanging out together. But in recent seasons we get the forced group get-togethers that seem to try to force the idea that they're all one big happy family on the viewers. They don't feel natural. And for this episode to not have Hotch pick up on JJ's distress/melt down is unforgivable. He is the team leader and he's been through plenty of trauma on his own. This episode made out that everyone but JJ is a dummy. Do you honestly think the rest of the BAU couldn't deduce that was an electrical burn scar on the corpse? They have had plenty of experience with that. Limelight, Remembrance of Things Past both dealt with unsubs who electrocuted their victims. The writers don't know how to give focus to a character without making the entire episode be about that character.
I think we need to keep in mind that it WAS Hotch who EM originally said was supposed to be dealing with this with JJ...and then it was changed to Reid (after what I believe was the uproar of Reid fans on Social Media). That altered the delivery of the scenes, and sadly the rewrite didn't work. Trying to keep somethings while switching other's usually means there's going to be a disconnection in the writing. And that's what we saw in my opinion.
Excellent point Barbara. Hotchner would have noticed first. I also think your point on what EM said as a lead in to the episode was also correct. However, EM, in the past couple of years, has misled the fans, repeatedly. IMO I don't know if I can truly believe anything she says anymore. I think the scene would have been better served if Hotch had seen the problem developing, and enlisted Reid's support in approaching JJ. It would have addressed several salient points. Hotch's leadership, observational skills as a team leader, and his knowledge of his subordinates relationship with him and also with each other. Plus, IMO it would have made a better show!
no just profilers notice somebody with post-tarumatic-d. a friend, a family the whole team that knew JJ, and our "nosy" and lovely Garcia didn't notice? Please more team...less episodes focus on 2 characters...
I was given permission by the Author - sesquipedalian to post this here.... Excellent insight to tonights episode. Even the fistbump didn't save this one for me. It was only one brief scene that was one of the few reprieves from the all JJ all the time show. They should rename it "It's All About JJ" or "Everybody Loves JJ" or something, because this is NOT criminal minds.First off, I didn't even get exactly what was going on in the fight thing. Was the trainer telling JJ that she was fighting poorly and would get killed if she did that? Or was he upset that she was hitting him so much and showing a bruised ego? Who the hell was that guy?Cue gratuitous view of JJ's overly thin abdomen for no apparent reason.JJ just happens to put on one of the most obvious and useless bandages on her knuckles? Wait, didn't she have gloves on? Why would her knuckles look like that? And wouldn't that bandage rub? Why didn't anyone else notice the bandage? Couldn't she have used a much less obvious and more effective bandage? Oh wait, because then she wouldn't be able to just slide it aside to show the guy. That was so contrived.Nobody even asks JJ what happened to her hand-- even Reid who happens to be noticing it.Only Reid seems to be aware that its near the anniversary of JJ's kidnapping and only he seems to notice something going on. At least they gave an explanation why the rest of the team was out actually doing something and Reid was sitting around waiting for JJ to come out of the bathroom.(1-3)
It was odd how Reid clinically described the "textbook" PTSD for JJ and then when she gets in the room alone she's all "Stop being YOU!" Wow.. Gee, thanks JJ. Could you be any more rude? This is where we had so much potential for an actual touching moment of the two characters sharing their suffering with Reid being able to offer some understanding. Instead, we have a total failure and waste of time.JJ cries and cries while Reid stands there like a robot who doesn't understand human emotions. Like his toaster is broken and he doesn't know how to fix it. JJ's feelings are so strong, nobody could possibly understand what it is like to be tortured and feel your world turn upside down... oh wait! Reid went through that to the point he became a drug addict. I kept waiting for Reid's empathy to show and for Reid to share some of what he felt. But no. The writers completely forgot about that because apparently there isn't enough room for anyone else's angst and it has to be all about JJ instead.And not only is JJ under huge stress, but she's also able to practically solve the case single-handedly. Nobody else has the same insights. Only JJ recognizes the electrical burns because of her experience. Nevermind that Reid would probably know from having seen tons of autopsy photos, read medical journals, and probably being well-versed in torture techniques. JJ is the one who has to point out to Reid that it was a defibrilator (well, Reid is the one who says it, but JJ knew before he said it).Getting in to the medical facts, a CM/Hotch fan from another forum who is a nurse said that if the heart freezes, you can't restart it electrically.JJ stays behind to read the autopsy report and suddenly rushes out and tells Hotch she's solved the case-- and my clock read 8:12 (maybe 8:14). I was like "really?" and was wondering just how much time they would waste on JJ's angst. At least it wasn't just the end. Btw, what JJ read in the report was the glucose levels of the blood of the victim. Fun fact: when a person dies, their blood sugar drops to zero and there is no way to get an accurate reading of what their blood sugar was prior to death (unless they were given a glucose test prior to death). (2-3)
After the talk where Reid ignores the insults from JJ and is all worried that his friend is hurting but he can't help (and totally forgets his own trauma so he can't share or explain that he knows how it feels). Btw, didn't JJ pretty much say Reid had no idea what it was like? She was so full of emotion and I felt almost like MGG was phoning it in-- well, not quite phoning, but reining himself in so he wouldn't steal the scene from AJ. I mean, JJ is the only one that really matters on the show now.The scenes with the cult people were actually rather interesting and creepy, but we barely scratched the surface. There was so much room for exploring the psychology-- why do people succumb to cults, how do the techniques work, and what are the aftereffects? So much room for exposition from Reid about how all this would have gone and worked because you know he's read up on it.I did like that Kate got the former cult member to open up to her a little. I kept feeling like Reid would have known ways to get through and how to trigger responses or play in to some of the brainwashing a bit, but nooo, he's too busy staring at a board and having brain freeze because he's worried about JJ. So, JJ is so awesome that not only can she solve the case while making the team look like chumps, but she can still think clearly even though she's having PTSD and Reid (who is clearly much weaker than JJ) can't focus. Hotch is concerned about Reid but Reid doesn't say anything and Hotch seems to be clueless. Reid runs off and Hotch doesn't stop him to make sure that he's able to work or anything. Hotch doesn't notice anything about JJ...(3- )
Quoting: "Btw, didn't JJ pretty much say Reid had no idea what it was like? She was so full of emotion and I felt almost like MGG was phoning it in-- well, not quite phoning, but reining himself in so he wouldn't steal the scene from AJ." I totally noticed that too. But actually i think it was on purpose, because while talking to people who's going through a hard time, psychology gives the edvice to the ones who are listening to not talk about own experiences so not to make the conversation about oneself, but rather just listen, because people experience trauma, depression etc.. really differently, and really, nothing is "textbook" about human feelings, because we all feel it differently, and if it is one person that knows this, its Reid.
Kudos Liv00859. Well said.
Thank you RoberttheFrost! You really made my day saying that :)
Good point about Reid, he knew he had to listen to her.
JJ interviews the guy and conveniently removes her bandage and the guy conveniently has a cast so he can show that he's hiding a picture from his kid (wouldn't that thing be all gross and ruined from sweat?).Creepy cult leader very obviously looks surprised at the photos of the dead people. Hotch stares but doesn't say much. At least Hotch got to get some insight for a change, but he's still not acting like the leader. Hell, JJ seemed to be leading on the profile delivery.We get some more exposition (I can't remember all of the details) and then we are back with JJ and Reid going into the cult place. "Hey! You need a warrant!" and Reid says "No, we don't". Umm.. YES, you DO. and they probably could have gotten one. They could have said one of the cops called in a favor or knew a judge and that it was critical because a child was in danger. They had statements from someone inside the cult that members were not being allowed to leave of their own free will. That was actually enough right there to get a warrant and to bring some people in for unlawful detainment.Oh, look. Garcia magically pulled up the dental records in 3 seconds. My dentist can't even pull up my dental records on her computer that fast. And lets not forget that we need a special snowflake moment for poor dainty Garcia who is feeling cold and needing to bundle up because thinking about the case makes her feel cold. *sigh* Morgan says "There's nothing strange about you". Are JJ and Reid alone in their search? I thought there were other cops. Oh yeah, almost forgot, girl child acts completely normal and not at all brainwashed. Ummm.. cult members would have been teaching them to not talk to outsiders and would be brainwashing them too-- maybe not with such extreme techniques. So the kid telling them what happened is too convenient and doesn't ring true.(4 - )
Garcia is an ex hacker so problably she can find a record faster than your dentist...but where is garcia intelligence on previous seasons?? she isn't a secretary or a looking robot machine....better lines for her and for reid please...faster she has the info less air time she has....like i said there isn't a team job anymore....this season kind of suck for now
Carrroll, it wouldn't matter how fast Garcia's computer is, if the source computer is slower. :PShe would realistically only be able to pull up the data as quickly as the computer could transfer it. But that is assume it would even be online. I'm pretty sure that my dental records are NOT online. But I know that this is just one of the things they fudge on because the show doesn't have time for the actual rate at which something would load. I accept that, but I still reserve the right to make fun of it.
Reid stays behind to babysit while JJ goes off on her own? What? Why? Because there are no cops to watch the kids? Oh, but they need to have JJ being all on her own so she can risk her life and save the victim.Hotch gives JJ a direct order which she ignores. She basically tells Hotch "No." Umm. listen biyatch, you don't get to tell your boss "No." He is the boss for a reason and oh, he's the BOSS! Somehow JJ knows the temp is too low to set off a spark? Or she just bluffed and she shoots the guy. For one, she should have told him to drop the thing or she would shoot and given him a chance to surrender.Info about the unsub is glossed over so quickly and its overwhelmed by JJ flashback scenes so it makes little to no impression. I think I heard the guy survived freezing and now somehow.. eh.. I forget. So JJ saves the day.Reid, who still can't seem to remember that he's been tortured and has gone through PTSD and doesn't understand these strange emotions that human beings have-- because, you know, he doesn't have them himself, calls Emily to get info. He puts the files in JJ's office (is it still her office? why does she get an office? If its not her office, then who has the office now?). It would have been nicer if it turned out Reid has the office now and he said "I put the files in MY office, you can go read them". Reid deserves an office after all of these years.Let's rewind a bit and remember that JJ disobeyed a direct order, shot a guy and could have blown herself and the victim up but she doesn't get an asschewing from Hotch. Reid got threatened with firing and he didn't even directly disobey an order. Hell, other team members did far worse than Reid and didn't get in trouble (but that was all post season 5). So, absolutely no interaction between Hotch and JJ-- oh wait, because that would have taken away from the time to have JJ cry and have flashbacks. *sigh* JJ opens a file and suddenly we're on some other program where a person is narrating the note. At first I was like "WTF? Who is the random narrator". Then it turns out its the dead guy and JJ is hallucinating and there is an argument and JJ cries some more. *ugh*(5 - )
Seriously, this could have been so much better if they had cut out so much of the JJ crap, made the case more cohesive, and actually had more team contributions. This was almost like 200 part 2.AJ's face was full of tears and she scrunched her face up a bit, but I still didn't fully buy the emotion behind it. If it had been briefer, it might have been easier to take, but the last at least 5 min were of JJ crying. Episode just dragged on and I kept checking the time and waiting for it to end.The good news is that the episode is over and that part is out of the way. The bad news is that it looks like they are setting it up to be an arc where JJ deals with the PTSD and tries not to lose her mind. Nevermind that there are therapists she could see, other people who have suffered PTSD to talk to... Ugh...I actually thought that some of the things that upset JJ-- feeling that if she had done things differently would have saved her baby and the woman and child-- had some ring of truth, but ultimately it still felt like the writers' attempt at emotional blackmail to make fans feel sorry for JJ instead of hating her. If they'd had Reid or even Hotch relating to JJ and having an understanding and true empathy of what it was like to be tortured and lose something and wish they had done things differently.... But no, this episode was so far up JJ's ass that we couldn't get any REAL emotion from anyone else.The total focus on JJ in this one utterly ruined the episode. It was a total FAIL to me.Also, as to the hallucinations thing, I'm sure they will probably just ignore it and have it be that its JJ's subconscious talking to her and that she was exhausted and really had just fallen asleep in the chair and dreamed it. Because JJ is far too strong *rollseyes* to give in. Ugh...My apologizes for any typos. I had a very clingy cat climbing on me the entire time and it made typing more difficult.(6-6)
I agree with you, Barbara Reilly. I wondered at first why Reid wouldn't have brought up his own pats and such but I guess when she told him about her lost baby he didn't feel like he could mention it. At lease that's my take. I know she several people who have had miscarriages (and none from being in a dangerous situation they shouldn't have been) who never got over it. I'm supposed to be the fifth of six children, but my mom miscarried two before my oldest sister was born and another when I was eight.) But even so JJ was was away out of line here with Reid and Hotch really should have read her the riot act over disobeying a direct order. I also thought about the warrant thing, my best guess is that they had probable cause in thinking about the children getting hurt, especially that one kid. At lease that's my best guess.
I understand all too well the concept of a violence induced miscarriage. My Ex caused me to have one at 4 months by kicking me until I miscarried. Believe me when I say, that it didn't take me 4 years to finally break because of it.. The break was swift afterward. But according to the last 4 yrs shows JJ never even revealed even a blip of something so traumatic having happened to her. As for the rest of the episode and the implausibility of it all... I lay that on the writers shoulders... Ultimately they are the ones who write the scripts that the actors bring to the screen. After seeing this... I am no glad that EM lied about Hotch being the one to help JJ through this...
I'm sorry Barbara. I didn't mean you wouldn't understand. I only meant maybe that was why Reid didn't rebuffed JJ's statements or reply about his own PTSD. I know it can be a quick time to break and last a long time (my mom still misses the others and they would be early 40s and 22.) In any case, JJ was way out of line. Here's hoping that it will be the last JJ centered episode this season but I'm not going to bet on it.
I almost passed on this episode. I'm glad I didn't. PTSD is a real problem. Although I'm definitely not an authority, I can say with some certainty that it, (PTSD) is a Life Altering Experience. ( Caps Intended). Most of us who have had to go to war, have someone in their lives who has completely changed from when we knew them from before their exposure to war. Hastings in talking to JJ in 200 said it well, " This place, Afghanistan, changes people. I can't imagine what it will do to you." In that aspect, the story makes sense. The victim will be doing the everyday things that everybody does, when, out of the blue, they catch a smell, a car backfiring, a child's cry, or even a familiar face walking on the sidewalk, and they'll be right back on the front lines, fighting for their emotional and or physical lives. Yes it CAN happen while driving a car, talking to coworkers, or even worse, Your wife (or husband) while lying in bed. Barbara, you're right when you say that the continuity of the story line is missing the mark. IMO this episode was required to blunt the backlash over 200. All in all, Completely fumbled by EM and the rest of the writing staff. IMO I think this is going to be a recurring thing (JJ's PTSD) for the rest of the season. When She was talking to Reid in the office, she asked Reid to give her a word. He couldn't come up with one. Might I offer two words - Survivor's Guilt. People who haven't experienced emotionally traumatic events have no basis of comparison to what's going on inside that persons soul. I think that AJC's performance tonight was exemplary. Far better than anything in recent memory. The capture of the torment and pathos that her character was going through was on point. I don't know if CM will be renewed after this season, but if I was to make a guess, I would say that if it did, The cast won't include AJC.
If only base on ratings, CM will get renewed but cast contracts (TG,JM,AJC,SM and KV are all without contracts at the end of this season) will play a huge part in renewal.As for JJ having flashback while driving, for god sake she is a profiler and knows what PTSD is and should have at the very least stop the suv.
ohhh hope is not JLH the only one who has contract for next year, indeed i would prefere criminal minds wihout her, i like the rest of the cast but some o them need better scripst. and i don't mind they hire a chief section: a mature lady like Strauss eansted of another profiler. and Please more of a team less centered characters episodes unless they all are involved ( tabula Rasa....Lauren, Revelations, Damaged, Reckoner, penelope,, profiling101...
Doesn't MGG have a contract for next year, since he renewed at the end of last season?
Nobody knows for sure, but the usual M.O. of the studios when renewing actors' contracts of veteran shows is to do so for 1 + 1 optional.In this particular case, it means there are high probabilities that both, JLH and MGG, signed contracts for S10 and 1 more optional, effectively making them both contracted if the show is renewed for S11.
Thanks for answering!
I just watched it.I didn't really want to but I cannot criticise if I don't watch and it was as bad as I feared. I can't add to Sequipedalian's critique that Barb has posted which says it all. I feel as though what could have been a really interesting case was rushed through just to show the JJ angst. I pray to every deity in the universe that 200 has been laid to rest for good and all. I cannot think that anyone really enjoyed this apart from the crazy JJ fans on Facebook, Put the poor woman in treatment somewhere and let us get back to what made CM such a great show.
AMEN Mary... and for your information in there are over 4000 gods and divine dieties in the major Pantheon's... I've gotten through praying to about 1/2 so far for this to be the bloody end of the whole 200,JJ torture,JJ PTSD. Unless of course because of what we saw in the Hallucination scene she has been set up to be written out in this year of contract negotiations.
i didn't enjoy 200 episode.....even with prentiss there
Like I said in my first comment, DirecTV crapped out on me at a pivotal part; so I really didn't feel comfortable commenting until I had saw the full episode on CBS online. And once again, I make my pitch to all CM viewers to do that with your headphones. It brings a new dimension to the viewing.That said, I really enjoyed this episode of CM. Breen wrote a fantastic storyline. Would I have liked the unsub storyline played out more? Sure; but I don't begrudge him writing a JJ storyline. And with a lot of Reid. This is a show with a large cast. Everyone deserves their time in the sun. AJ Cook, and MGG along for the ride got that.To the episode: Breen's script with the case was fantastic. His written portrayal of the cult leader was spot on and the actor was as well. I had to laugh at a Twitter post along the lines of him serving Kool Aid. Hello Jim Jones, complete with the sunglasses. That was damn spooky in my world.And then Breen threw me a curveball. Hotch brilliantly profiled that he wasn't the unsub. Oh holy hell! And yes, seeing Hotch sans suitcoat was extra good. Plus, plus (as Garcia says) having Hotch and Dave doing the interrogation was primo for me.However, this is where my review gets really tricky. I respect all opinions; so here's mine. #1: this is a large cast show. All actors deserve their time in the sun. It was AJ Cook's, and in the passenger seat, MGG's as well. It was wonderful to see their friendship again.For me, the team totally noticed that JJ was struggling with her observations in the Round Table room. Watch it again. Rossi's look at her said volumes. He knew. So did Morgan. For me, that's why the scene with them telling JJ to wait for the rest of them near the end tied that in. They all knew.And for me, so did Hotch. He's dealt with this before and is the Unit Chief. He knows what is happening with his team. Morgan immediately knew the profile of the connection to Carl Buford in "Restoration". Rossi did as well in "Identiity"; it was just Reid giving it, reciting from his book. Emily did as well in "It Takes A Village"; she knew it had to be Declan's mother. And so did Reid in "Elephant's Memory". But here's the one thing: all the rest shared that profile with the team. Like JJ did. In "Elephant's Memory", Reid never did. And in my world, THAT'S what got him in Hotch's doghouse. And in my world, when Reid fumbled, stumbled and couldn't give Hotch the answers in that one scene as he expected, he was clearly on board to JJ's issues and Reid helping her. And looking at preview for the next episode and the promo pics for Nelson's Sparrow, I'm inclined to think that Hotch has her somewhat on the BAU bench. Call me crazy. That's my take and I'll stand by that.*shakes head* Back to my review. I loved that Reid reached out to Emily for a deeper profile of Askari for JJ. And the symbolism of her doing it in her office, where Rossi and Blake found her "foxhole" like Morgan said did not escape me. All that said, there's so much more we CM fans could have seen. But there's only so much time for each episode.And I'll agree with other reviewers that the unsub part did seemed rushed to get in JJ's storyline. However, I'll say again: Breen wrote an episode to give AJ/JJ her time in the limelight. For me the episode did not disappoint.Kudo's to him for that. And the wonderful team scene on the jet that included a Hotch/Reid fistbump. That, IMHO, is a new CM classic scene.Rockie's final grade: a solid B+
i really miss classic scenes, not so much this season,
On your point about every team member needing their time in the sun: AJ/JJ has had plenty of time in the sun. In fact, she should be sunburned by now with how much exposure JJ has had. In almost every single episode this season she has played a major role in solving the case. She has a lot to say at the round table, on the plane, during the profile, and then she participates in the takedown most of the time. Last season was even called "the season of JJ". So it wasn't that it was her turn. She's been hogging the limelight for two seasons now. I think its the team's turn. The team as a whole with each member contributing based on their own expertise and experiences. The problem is that the profiling has become so generic that almost any one of the team members could spout the lines and have the insights.In this last one, JJ was not only having insights, but she was having more insights than every other team member to the point that she almost solved the case all by herself. Hell, she took down the unsub and rescued the victim all by herself. There has been a shift where instead of being a team show, it is like "The Profiler" show where there was one lead female character who had all the answers while the rest of her backup characters were dumbed down. The worst part is that the other characters on this show ARE being dumbled down so they can take a backseat to superawesomeJJ. I don't mind her figuring out things that make sense for her to know.Maybe the team noticed something off about her, but none of them said anything. After what happened with Elle, I don't buy for a second that any of them (save Kate) would keep their mouths shut about it.
Totally hit the mark Sesqy. This Character has been in the sun so damn long she should be as red as a dang burn lobster. I don't know maybe she uses industrial strength sun screen.But then again only us mere mortals have to worry about such things as getting sunburned.My guess is a super woman like she is doesn't have to worry about such things.One last point. It'd sure be nice if the other characters could get their turn in the sun.Some of them are looking rather pale lately.
Great episode but.... I love JJ and AJ Cook but it really annoyed me when JJ said Reid didn't get what she is going through Reid completely understands I mean he was kidnapped longer then her and he frickin died and like others said why didn't JJ get a lecture from hotch like Reid did and well they can mention what happened to JJ so much but never what happened to Reid I mean I'm prett sure he had PTSD too and Reid was so sweet in this episode and when Hotch asked if he had anything to tell him he said no trying to stay true to what he told JJ and the fist bump between Hotch and Reid was cute in fact the whole plane scene was cute and shows the teams friendship and well it seems like Kate is fitting in just fine.
I think JJ was overwhelmed with everything, and everyone's situation is so different and affects them so differently that no one of us can ever truly know what another is going through. We may relate or have one through something similar, but you can never truly understand EXACTLY what another is feeling. That being said, I think JJ was dwelling on her miscarriage at that point, which is something that Reid could offer comfort for, but most definitely would NOT understand. I'm not trying to dampen Reid's situation - I know he went through some horrible things - I'm just saying that what they went through was not the same.
I agree about the miscarriage thing. That being said, once again she treated him as dirt.
I see your point Autumn, but I don't think JJ was trying to "treat him as dirt", I think it was more about how when you don't even understand your own feelings, it's hard to be overly conscious of everyone else's. When she told Reid to "Stop being you", I don't think she was trying to be rude, but rather was trying to hold it all together. Reid being a good friend and calling her out made it impossible for her to hold it in, which is what she ha been trying to do. At the end, I thought it was clear through their gestures that JJ really appreciated everything Reid did for her. But I understand your point of view:)
Good point Madison J!
To Madison J and rockhotch31, thank you so much; looks like I'm not alone in my opinion of this amazing episode. It seems as though there are words being stuffed in my mouth, words that don't belong there... such as "all people who dislike JJ are whiners?" Zayrina, I respect your opinion, doesn't mean I have to agree with it, but I did not say that. What I said was "Ill bet A LOT of the SAME PEOPLE who hate JJ and want to see her disappear forever are PROBABLY the same people who WHINED when JJ came back a changed character after AJ's season 6 layoff"..... I just joined and I think this season has been amazing, "A Thousand Suns" and "Hashtag" are, arguably some of the best CM episodes of all time ... this episode wasn't the best of the season, but it sure doesn't deserve being knocked as much as it has... however, I can get a bit too passionate sometimes, which is why I deleted my previous comment, so to Criminal Minds Round Table, I am terribly sorry if you've construed what I've said as disrespectful. I'm sorry. Same to you, Barbara and Zayrina. Just because I said its the same people who do this and did that... doesn't mean you guys are those people!!! You guys are both vets of this website, I just joined the other night... I've been busy with school ... Biochemistry Technology at Mohawk College which is why I wont even start on the whole "implausibility of people being resuscitated after being frozen ... and to an unknown degree" believe me, its plausible, ....and what JJ said about acetylene H-C≡C-H, or C2 H2 not exploding at that temperature is incorrect. It was a shot in the dark on her part because she was trying to reunite the father and son so badly as a surrogate for Nadia and her daughter that she didn't care if she was wrong.... Tivon Askari's ghost pointed that out, the fact that theres no way she could've known that. And that scene with Askari at the end ... yeah its not typical for Criminal Minds ... but for me it was extremely visceral, well done, well acted, and on point, ....and it drove home the fact that JJ contrary to popular belief is not a superhero.As for the PTSD issues, Breen Frazier is a smart dude, we all know that... I'm doubtful he would've written this in without doing his homework and doing the necessary research... big shout out to Sir RobertTheFrost and especially ROCKIE, my man... thank you for pointing out why Reid was reprimanded in "Elephant's Memory" and JJ wasn't in this case. I plan on being nothing but respectful from here on out. This episode was not the best, but it was still Classic Criminal Minds, (yes the fist pump will be legendary) which means it was still amazing, and definitely not the worst. Long live CM.
SevereCMaddict you were rude in your first post (and Zayrina is correct, even if you didn't SAY it, you insinuated it) I tried to just not comment directly to you since even CMRT responded to your post but this last post I had to. Finally, "it doesn't deserve to be knocked down as much as it has," we have a right to our opinions, and the majority of us didn't like it. Yes, you have a right to your opinions, but as I just said, so do we and the majority don't like this new JJ. Have a good day nonetheless.
Severe addict, I have been a nurse for 25 years and without a great deal of ancillary backup from a medical standpoint it is extremely implausible that one could be frozen to death and then have a defibrillator used without some serious use of drugs to assist that people simply blink a few times and then group hug. One has to be slowly, and I mean very slowly warmed up with IV fluids even when there is still a pulse present in a patient suffering hypothermia or they go into v-fib and die. So yeah. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/770542-treatment Meahwhile I might point out to you that none here are mind readers. If you use general characterizations of the posters you can expect one and all to take offense. Many of us complained about 200. What of it? We are duly entitled to criticize and don't appreciate being maligned as "those who whined".
You know what? I'm way outnumbered here as someone who remotely respects JJ/AJ cook and Erica Messer so hate away, guys. Zayrina and Autumn, you're right. You are both entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. Sorry if I offended you. Zayrina, I certainly hope you have, indeed, been a nurse for 25 years; I highly doubt you're someone who is small and petty enough to make that up. I have an endless amount of respect for nurses because they are the ones who brought me back to life when I overdosed on August 4th, 2013 which was 6 deays before the last day I ever consumed a mind-altering substance, making me 17 months and 5 days clean. (yes my nickname is a pun, implying that I've replaced one addiction with an other lol) I apologize but would also like to thank you for pointing out a flaw in my understanding of the episode around which my biochemistry-based conclusion was centered. I didn't think they were frozen to death, I thought only the murder victims were, and that the rest were only induced into a state of hypothermia and then brought back to complete consciousness. That is my mistake. In that case, anyone who stated that part of the plot was medically implausible is right, it is. But the plot was still twisted, scary, and engrossing enough to entertain and completely captivate this Criminal Minds addict into enjoying the episode so kudos to you to sticking to your guns. And finally, my previous comment about whining was not directed toward ANYONE who has posted on this board. It was directed at the people who've said on youtube that she should be killed off, and that she ruins the show. I can't tell anyone not to be offended as I've learned the only thoughts feelings or actions I can control are my own, so I am sorry if I offended you. I will not make any more generalizations. Anyhow, you all have a nice day, I hope you guys enjoy the next episode as much as I enjoyed this one. :) Criminal Minds Round Table FTW! :)
@severeCMaddict well I like JJ and AJ bit I think everyone should be spread out evenly and have the same amount of screen time then others but that's my opinion
Once again as cmrt pointed out, that to criticize is not hating on....
My, oh my, Reid looked fine. I loved looking at him, listening to him talk, looking at him… did I say he looked fine? (sigh)That said I resent the hell out of this show for using this beautiful man to lure me into watching an episode I didn't care to watch, because it was The Nuthin' But JJ Show. First off, the implausibility of shocking a frozen heart back to rhythm is unforgivable; the very act of trying to resuscitate a hypothermic patient kills many of them, as it is a process that takes hours and careful medical attention to be successful. This is very easy to research and get right, but that would mean someone cares about presenting reality.Next, the awful way JJ treated Reid. Has she ever made up for the way she's treated him these last 4 years? Heck no, she just adds more abuse to the pile, while he's trying to help her selfish ass.Finally, did she have to solve the entire case all by herself while in the throes of extreme PTSD? Throwing off her Superwoman cape, eh? Not so much. This was sooooo disappointing, even though my expectations were low. But, hey, Reid looked yummy.
I'm in full agreement! That man is so beautiful. But it is so sad that that was about the only thing I liked in the episode. I don't think we have seen a close Reid/JJ friendship for years. He was much closer to Blake and Rossi in recent times so I don't buy all they said in interviews beforehand about their special friendship. Sometimes I think they blur the lines between Reid and JJ and MGG and AJC.
Yeah, the only thing that made this episode watchable to me was Reid ( and Hotch for that costume) lol.
^ PLANE SCENE. Auto corrected to "costume"!?!?!
I did wonder what I had missed. =)
Well CM addict I certainly hope you have been an addict, I highly doubt you would be small and petty enough to make that up to say, garner sympathy or something, I have a lot of respect for people who turn their lives around. It is always a good idea to take any internet claims with a grain of salt. I could, after all is said and done, be a humble yak herder on a mountain in Tibet with a good internet connection. .I hope you will not be afraid to take an opposing view on here, if you do it respectfully it is a welcome relief form a round of agreement. I doubt that you will change any minds, but you never know. I would also point out that adding that you meant someone on you-tube might have helped, but they too are entitled to an opinion which differs from yours.Cheers I have to be heading into Katmandu for some Purina Yak chow.
Zayrina, I just have to say I love this, especially the Purina Yak chow
severeCMaddict,'so to Criminal Minds Round Table, I am terribly sorry if you've construed what I've said as disrespectful. I'm sorry'It is ok, It is just that sometime people make the mistake to think that criticism = hate. We had many people here labeling people who disagree with them as 'haters'.But all is well and enjoy reading your comments even if I disagree with some of your comments :)
Autumnamberleaves said'we have a right to our opinions' Yes, you are very correct, all have a right to voice their opinions here. As we have often said no name calling, Just because people do not agree with an opinion do not mean they are haters.Many not just here but on many other forums have voiced their displeasure at this episode for many reasons. This is mean as a general comment: If people want to post here by all means do so but remember to follow some simple rules:- be respectful of cast, crew AND fans- state your opinion and be prepare to have it agreed or disagreed with, after all this is a public forum.- you disagree with someone? fine say why you do so without attacking the person and resorting to name calling.That's pretty much it :)
Yes, CMRT I agree, and I love when people can agree to disagree :) That's what makes this website so awesome. But to Autumnamberleaves, I can't believe that the only thing you got out of that post was the fact that I blurred the fine line between criticism and hatred. That is only one person's opinion, and as CMRT said that is an all too commonly made mistake. I was taking responsibility for what I'd said and the point was to APOLOGIZE which I've done. I made a mistake, my love for JJ clouded my judgment and objectivity and confused your criticism with hatred. JJ is a role model for me as a gay man who has had to overcome many obstacles and so is Reid. I have an intellect similar to Reid, although my IQ is only 142 and I cant read as fast as him, I'm a recovering addict and I know what its like to feel like being the smartest in the room is like being the only person in that room. Anyhow, that was meant to be an apology, not a display of how easily I confused criticism for hate. Please try and think of the glass as half full. I'll agree to disagree. Peace to all I must go to school now, and long live CM; Round Table FTW :) And thank you CMRT (the blogger), much respect to you, sir.
Hi. In response to your direct comment to me, no, it wasn't the only thing that I noticed, but rather the only thing that I chose to comment on. Thank you. Have a good day though. :)
severeCMaddict,'You know what? I'm way outnumbered here as someone who remotely respects JJ/AJ cook and Erica Messer so hate away, guys'We all respect the cast and crew and that include Erica Messer and AJ Cook ( many of the CMRT staff have meet with both Erica and AJ) but that respect doesn't preclude us from being critical of their work. As I have said being critical is not being hateful. When CM does great like they did with 'A Thousand Suns' we all praise the cast and crew, when they do not do wel,l we say so too then move on to the next episode.
SevereCMaddict,All is ok, we all have our favorite and we feel protective of them :) glad you did overcome adversity and have a good day at school :)
So this is my second, more in depth review of this episode. I watched it again, because I knew I missed so much, particularly with regards to the actual case. Knowing what was coming allowed me to sit back and watch it and not get overwhelmed with anger or anything like I did the first go around. This episode was not just JJ centric emotionally for the side scenes but relatively team centric for the case scenes, like we saw for "If the Shoe Fits." No this was JJ centric through and through, which I wouldn't bitch about as much if she hadn't been so centric for the past couple of years. Instead I noted five key observations and actions that basically ensured that JJ single handedly solved the case. JJ Observation# 1: JJ was the only one who noticed the electrical burns on Sarah's body. Yeah yeah, we are supposed to buy that only JJ could recognize that because of what she experienced personally. But this team has encountered at least one case where there were electrical burns on the victims ("Limelight"), so it's not like foreign territory for any of them. It made it just a bit more eye rolling for me when Kate just fawned over JJ's revelation, because she was so amazed at how she figured it out. It seemed to me a throwaway line to show just how more insightful JJ is because of her personal experience. Yes, absolutely personal experience can give a person additional insight into the mind of an unsub, but let's not pretend that the rest of the team shouldn't have figured that out.JJ Observation #2: JJ knew exactly what was going on, and that a cult was involved, because of the increased glucose levels combined with low protein levels. Of course there were a couple issues with that. First off, and has been noted by other posters, but blood glucose levels can't be measured after death. So we had another example of junk science writing for the sole purpose of advancing the plot. Since there was only one victim at that point, I think it was a bit premature to assume cult and not just a single unsub acting alone for his own pleasure. It was never really explained why the BAU was called in for only one victim, but I assume it was because of the weird nature of a victim frozen.
After thinking, I see the first Reid/JJ scene in a bit of a new light. It was perfectly in character for Reid to waylay JJ and try and talk to her. It reminded me of the Reid/Elle scene in "Aftermath", and that is probably my second favorite Reid/Elle scene of all time. Reid does have a history of seeing that his female friends are in emotional turmoil and does his level best to help them. But for some reason, this scene didn't have the same resonance with me as Reid/Elle. Maybe I am just prejudiced (a definite possibility), because I am not JJ's biggest fan these days, but Reid felt a bit off to me. I can't figure out if it is the writing or if it is the acting or directing. Reid felt natural, like a deeply concerned friend when he talked to Elle. And I agree with the poster who said Reid seemed to act like a child scared that his mommy was crying.That's not really anything to do with JJ, though I have a bit of an issue with the writing choices in this scene. It seemed, based on what JJ said, that she was more upset about what happened four years ago, rather than being tortured by Askari. JJ said she couldn't let it go, but she seemed to have no issue letting it go for the past four years. Hell, she was joking about being tortured with Morgan and Kate just a few short months ago. And why was she so upset about Askari's betrayal NOW, when she knew full well four years ago that he was behind the IED attack and ambush that injured her and caused her to miscarry?JJ Observation#3: For a change, JJ's hard attitude during questioning seemed appropriate, though she did get credit for finding Bobby's father. But I never really understood why Bobby's father couldn't file a missing persons report with the police. Sure, the cult may not respond to lawsuits, but I am sure they would have responded to a search warrant looking for Bobby. JJ Observation#4: It was JJ who suggested the stakeout for the cult house, which of course lead us to the next disconcerting scene.JJ Observation#5: Of course it was JJ who determined that the actual unsub must be the one watching the kids, because all the other cult members were questioned.
Now it was got weird from the end of that scene to the end of the episode. I wonder if there was a scene that was shot that explained some very weird actions, because it certainly felt like some sort of connecting scene was missing. I mean, did the police get the phone call from the stakeout alerting them that the kids were on site? And if that was the case, why did only Reid and JJ go to the scene? And Reid's statement that they didn't need a warrant? Uh wrong, of course they needed a warrant. And they probably would have been able to obtain one relatively easily to look for Bobby. So I don't know what the point of that was, except to make the FBI seem extra tough. And yes, the episode definitely took a downturn from here. As noted by others, it made no sense for Reid to let JJ go alone. There were other police on site, so any one of them could watch the children. Plus, law enforcement really doesn't make a habit of going anywhere without backup. And why exactly was JJ melting down at that point? Yes, in real life flashbacks can occur at any time, but unlike real life, fiction is harder to write, because it is supposed to make sense. And her breakdown didn't really make sense. There was nothing the immediate situation that had any crossover to her torture, and yet she was flashing back while barreling into a potentially dangerous situation alone. She disobeyed a direct order to wait for backup and just went in there blindly. And then she recklessly shot the unsub, not knowing that her gun wouldn't set off the acetylene torch. I guess the whole point of those scenes were supposed to show that JJ was downward spiraling and rapidly.
And now of course we get to the final scene. And while a second viewing of this scene made me acknowledge that AJ's acting was fine, it REALLY made me question the writing choices Breen made. I still don't get the point of the last scene between Reid and JJ. I can't really imagine why Reid would think that showing JJ Askari's file would somehow be of help to her. You would think Reid would gently suggest that, while he is open to be her sounding board as her friend, she should really seek professional therapy to help her heal. JJ's pain is beyond the scope of Reid's abilities and he shouldn't be the only one in JJ's support network. And I REALLY can't figure out why Hotch hadn't stepped in by this point. Reid knew full well the dangers of staying quiet when a fellow team member was melting down. He was deeply regretful after Elle left that he didn't say anything sooner, because he knew she was in serious emotional turmoil. Now he does the same thing again. But even so, even without Reid saying something to Hotch, he should have seen something on his own. Hotch noticed that Reid was distracted and asked him about it. And he noticed Reid was struggling during "Elephant's Memory" and stepped in to talk to him about it. And yet he says nothing to JJ. He doesn't reprimand JJ for disobeying orders, and he doesn't talk to her about her struggles. Hotch seemed to have learned his lesson by letting Elle flail on her own, so I can't see why he would be regressing with regards to JJ. We know he holds JJ in high regard. He is her boss, and if he thinks she is breaking down-thus making her a potential danger on the job to herself and others-he has an obligation to intervene. He should order into therapy until she receives the all clear that she is fit for duty. I can't really get what the writers were going for with the final scene. It just felt so unnecessary, overwrought and indulgent. The ONLY way I would give this scene a pass, is if this was supposed to be the first in her downward spiral, ala Elle and Gideon. Then I could look back and see where it all started. But if this issue is never brought up again, it will feel even more unnecessary. Was the ending supposed to indicate that JJ is back in denial land and suppressing deeply? Or are we supposed to believe that JJ is now "over it?" Of course we won't know that until subsequent episodes. In any case, JJ is in need of some industrial strength therapy, and is unfit for duty at the moment, in my opinion.Overall, I really disliked this episode for all the reasons I listed. My biggest issue was the overload of JJ in the past few seasons stuffed with so much JJ. And for all the reasons I listed, my main issue is with the writing choices. I can only imagine where the show will go from here.
@My Called; I'm going to attempt to answer your post in reverse order. I too am concerned about the direction of the show. You're right about the choices the writers have taken concerning main character plots or subplots. It seems to me that the writers are reaching to find things for the team to do. At best it's disjointed, at worst, IMO it's being totally void of the positive direction CM has been known for, these past 9 years. The next point you made was about the final scene. It is certain that the only people who actually know where they were going with this subplot are the writers themselves. IMO, and I'm no authority on this. What I see is an Agent who is in freefall. What I see in this scene is JJ trying to rationalize, in her own mind, what Askari did to her last year, using imagery to play off of Askari. It's a form of rationalization, I don't know what the official term is, but the phrase roll playing comes to mind. Knowing the strength Reid has of his own mind, this may be his attempt at trying to help JJ, his friend, godfather to her son, and coworker, come to grips with what could be construed as survivors guilt. She lived. She saw herself on the coroners table. She knows the decisions she made in Afghanistan, cost lives, including that of her own baby. PTSD is an ongoing concern for those who have it. There is no answer to what they have, there is only the tools under which victims have to try to control it. As a story line, it writes itself. To be certain, Hotchner will need to become involved if her behavior doesn't improve. IMO some of the people who are supervisors (aka Section Chiefs ) are promoted, not because they're the most qualified, but because they NEED to be taken out of the field. They are too valuable to be kicked to the curb, so they put them where they could be of most use to the bureau. I don't know for certain, but this seems to be a more logical course of action to take. And before anyone gets to excited about qualifications, in the episode of " It Takes A Village" there was an insinuation that JJ was the head of the BAU while Hotchner was TAD overseas. Please be aware of this. PTSD is a real problem, it's onset has been documented decades later, and with little, or no warning. RTF
Robert, I must say you made some very interesting insights into what JJ was probably going through.The problem for me is that I can't get pass the implausibility of a pregnant woman being sent to a war zone in the first place.Add to the fact I find it absolutely ludicrous that she would have been chosen over the likes of Hotch and Rossi. Just what exactly were her qualification that made her the right person for that mission anyway. I also have a huge problem with there being no indication whatsoever that she had suffered this miscarriage.I mean come on she is standing there just moments after Reid has delivered a baby and she is positively beaming.Now since this was season 9 the same season we learned about the miscarriage the writers no doubt already knew they had planned to reveal JJ's tragic loss.But we got absolutely nothing.It's not as if I expected JJ to take one look at the baby and start balling her eyes out,but some little subtle look from JJ such as a look of sadness or maybe pain and regret would have been nice than when the miscarriage was revealed people would think back to that scene and it would suddenly make sense to them.
Hi Debra, Thanks for the input. I agree with you about JJ's pregnancy. Upon discovery of her being pregnant, she would have never made it out of the medical tent without a one way plane ticket home. As for the reason why Rossi or Hotch weren't "chosen" over JJ? The only answer could be "creative license", which drops the domino of continuity. In the real world, IMO JJ would have NEVER been chosen due to the fact that, get ready for this, She's a woman. In that society, women are regarded lower than the cost of a farm animal. Routinely taken advantaged of, never respected, and most of all, never being allowed to say anything in the company of men. Putting a STRONG female presence in that society would have been a slap in the face to their culture. Lastly, you are also on point about her response concerning the baby being born. I haven't ever seen a woman yet who didn't wear her emotions on her sleeve concerning newborns.
Robert, you make a very good point when it comes to women and that culture. Yet another good reason why this story line wasn't very plausible,along with the idea that she'd be chosen over either Hotch or Rossi both of whom had way more to offer than she did in both skills and experience.And I agree with you about the so called "creative license" And thank goodness for it. It allows the BAU to have it's own private jet.But even more important it make allowances for Reid, who basically is the only reason why I am even tolerating this show at the moment.But I also believe that it can be abused,and I suspect that you do too, resulting in all sorts of ridiculous and implausible story lines. We've seen evidence of this in both the story lines for the unsubs as well as JJ.
Debra, Thanks for the feedback. Your comment about Reid was LOL Funny! I haven't been blogging on this site long, certainly not the length of time some of the others have. But I have gone back and added to various episodes. 200 being one of the most notable, also from this past October? on. By nature, I'm hard on writers. The episodes originate, live, and sometimes die with them. I've been, in the past, a vocal and outspoken critic of EM. IMO There's been a gradual degradation of the quality, continuity, and plausibility of the scripts. Lately it has driven me to actually walk away from the show. This is the first episode I've watched live in two weeks. I will continue to watch as long as this PTSD episode doesn't become an orphan. IMO that would be unforgivable to the 12th power. There is so much misinformation out there that really needs to be told. No I'm not asking for a documentary. Just a cognizant story line that we, as viewers, can follow and appreciate. With EM's history of stopping and starting story lines, I'm not optimistic. The past two years in particular, have been not only whipsawed, but trying to follow them, a person could end up with a severe case of whiplash. Here's hoping to a better end. RTF
Thank you Robert and you are right on the mark concerning the writing of this show.You don't know how badly I want EM to be shipped off to that spin off along with the majority of those writers of her. When you have many fans feeling that the best part of the episode was the Hotch/Reid fist bump that speaks volumes and it isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the episode.Personally I'd rather this be the end of it because I am so fed up with JJ. But I do understand why you feel the need for a follow up.And if I knew it could be done in a more fair and balanced way I might have less misgivings about it.But EM and these writers seem to have those words missing from their vocabulary when it comes to this character.CM's official FaceBook page has always been overwhelming pro JJ. You would occasionally see a negative comment about her. However I am now beginning to see a bit of a backlash against her over there, although it is still way more pro JJ.Anyways as I was reading the comments over there this one particular comment really jumped out at me.It goes as such: "I was the only one in my family that used to just feel meh about JJ instead of outright hating her.Now that they've decided THAT EVERY OTHER EPISODE needs to be about JJ. I'm in the I hate her boat. For the love of good television enough with her crap"Now granted that person was exaggerating about every other episode being a JJ episode,but I certainly understand their frustration because to many of us it feel that way.EM and company seem totally oblivious to the dangers of overexposing a character. They aren't really doing JJ any favors by doing it. Because as evidence by that comment people who were at one time neutral where her character was concerned are now starting to turn against her
Some questions:1. How come JJ gets to have a scar from her torture, but Reid doesn't get a scar from being shot? I guess Reid has a better plastic surgeon than JJ. Maybe he should refer her.2. How much space was supposed to have happened between Adam's death (the second victim) and retrieval of his body? I mean, for us, it was literally just one scene. But we see him on the autopsy slab with no discovery of the body. In a later scene we do hear that Adam was found in Lake Mead, but it certainly was unclear when the autopsy scene first aired. But at least that scene produced a good conversation among Hotch, Reid and Kate.Some good points:1. My absolute favorite scene of the episode was the plane scene. The light humor felt like a return to scenes from earlier seasons. This show has always had a touch of light humor to offset the darkness of the crimes. The early season scenes felt natural and authentic, like you would think real people would talk and joke with each other. If the later seasons had scenes like that, they sort of felt forced, unnatural and corny, So I was very pleased to watch this scene. I enjoy Kate's rapport with Reid. It feels light and friendly and even though Kate teased Reid, it didn't feel like she did it with malice or with intent to disparage him like we have seen in previous seasons (*coughs*Ashley*coughs*). I enjoyed seeing a return of sassy, smart Reid who knows that statistics are his wheelhouse and people challenge him on it at their own peril. And yes, the Hotch/Reid fist bump was a definite highlight. We don't see enough of the Hotch/Reid friendship these days.2. Yes, it would have been a completely jarring thing and at odds with the entire episode, but I couldn't help but wish that the cult had started chanting "One of us! One of us!" after welcoming a new cult member into the fold.3. Morgan did have his own significant observation when he deduced that Sarah might have gone missing from Arizona and not Nevada. I guess Maps! are cheating on Reid with Morgan. :) :) :)4. Hotch did make his own progress in the case when he had Penelope look for past frostbite victims. 5. Kate was empathetic when establishing rapport with Tom and trying to get him to talk about The Forever People.6. It was nice to see Hotch and Rossi doing profiling when they knew that the cult leader wasn't actually the killer based on his reaction to seeing the pictures. And it was good that Morgan added that none of the cult members reacted abnormally to the pictures. Of course this lead us to JJ Observation#5.7. Reid mentioned a new paraphilia to add to his list. :) :)
I was wondering... Where in the world is Matt Cruz? He definitely should've been in this episode in some way, shape or form... he was a big part of JJ's mission and her torture. I just find it strange that the Section Chief of the BAU has not been in the first 14 episodes of the tenth season.... I was expecting to see him in at least 10.11, 10.12, and 10.13 ...but nothing. Tbh, Mateo Cruz is my favourite recurring character. I hope he's gonna be on the show at least sometime before the finale... hopefully sooner than later!
I think there really wasn't room for Cruz. I mean, there wasn't even enough room for the regular cast members because there was so much focus on JJ. For once I would have preferred even a little more time with the unsub just to get more than a 5 second blurb. I know you've apologized, but I did want to specify that not everyone who disliked it when JJ came back as a changed character was "whining". Whining implies that there was no validity to the complaints. Many people had valid criticisms of the changes. That doesn't mean there were no people whining, but it still had an implied dismissive tone. but then, tone is hard to interpret in text, so I don't think you meant any offense. Just wanted to point that out so you're aware of how it comes off.I still really wish that they'd made different choices in this episode:1) a more cohesive story2) the whole team working the case and contributing key things instead of it being all JJ3) other team members talking to JJ4) JJ actually showing signs of struggling during the case and having a little trouble focusing in a way that was noticed and mentioned by other team members5) Reid having called BS (in a polite way) about how he wouldn't understand her pain-- given all that he's been through. He could have said "Look, I didn't go through the same exact thing, but I know what its like to be tortured. I know what its like to have the nightmares" and maybe list the things he experienced. and tell her she's not alone.6) JJ should never have gone to the unsub's place alone and if she did, she should have been read the riot act by Hotch and then told that his office was open if she needed to talk.After what happened to Elle, it makes zero sense for Hotch to NOT step in.
Oh wow, its actually letting me post! I'm shocked!I would like to revise an earlier statement I made (that Barb posted on my behalf). I said that Reid seemed like a robot who didn't understand human emotions. Indeed, his facial expressions and mannerisms were similar to Data on ST:TNG when he didn't understand things. However, with his voice and some of the expressions, it seemed more like he was a small child who did not understand grown-up feelings. It was like he didn't understand why Mommy was crying but he wanted to make her better.I agree with a post up above that Reid giving JJ the file didn't really make sense. It seemed to only serve the plot point of having Askari in the office talking to her. Had she been dreaming, it would have been ok. But she was awake and it just didn't work for me.I did not hate this episode despite giving it a fail. It had some good moments and an intriguing case, but it was too glossed over. We got very little about the victims so we couldn't feel for them. There was so much potential in this one and it fell flat.I hope that the writers read this and look at what didn't work and what did work and try to find a better balance.
Just want to say HI SESQY!!!!!!!! YAY you finally managed to get here!!!!!
You're absolutely right, not everyone who said JJ has taken a turn for the worse, so to speak, are whiners ..not at all.. When I said that, I was referring to the clowns on youtube and, unfortunately, other sites, who've been saying "EM should take her little toy AJ cook and go to the Spin-off, or they should just kill her off" those statements have NO VALIDITY. trust me; I know the difference between whining and valid observations that are founded in logic. (those that I see here) So please, leave me alone on the JJ issue, I've learned my lesson and I don't ever plan on defending her in the the future; I'm willing to silently agree to disagree on the subject. My main complaint to which you replied was in response to the lack of Cruz, but thanks to you, for this episode I could understand that. But cmon, 10.14 "Hero Worship" is going to have bombings all over Indianapolis and he's not even gonna be in that one... If hes not in Nelson's Sparrow he should at least go with them to solve the subsequent case... anyhow, thank you for clearing that up though! I can now understand why he wasn't in "The Forever People" ...and I know he might not be a fan favourite either but I've been watching this show since Season 1 (I was 13 at the time, so obviously I've had to rewatch many times) but there's just something about him that I love. lol
Remember that Esai Morales is a busy man he did two movies and one tv series (The Brink) that schedule to be release in 2015. So he may not be available to do CM at the moment.
severeCMaddict, I'm not trying to pick on you about the JJ issue. Just was commenting on how it came off. Also, you don't need to disagree silently. You can simply say that you disagree and state why. You may help some people to see her in a different light. If you feel that people are being unfair, I see no problem with you defending her. I think the issue people took was not that you were defending JJ, but the way in which you did it. I'm not trying to lecture you, but I've learned that when you make the argument about the people making the argument instead of the points themselves, it gets ugly fast. Even if you don't intend to insult anyone, sometimes people will take offense. Of course, there are people who will take offense if you disagree with their opinions and they will start ad hominem arguments. Best thing to do is ignore those and laugh about it. :DBut moving along, I do actually like Cruz. I like him better than Strauss and I hope to see him again in a situation where it makes sense for him to be there. The explosions situation sounds like a valid reason, although I don't remember Strauss being in Mayhem and Lo-Fi. It As CMRT said, it depends on Esai's availability.
Yay! Sesky arrives!
Sorry Barbara, I didn't mean to reply to you, lol; I was trying to reply to the poster above you, who seems pretty cool... but since I took so long to type, you were able to post before I could finish replying :p
That's ok... I figured it out... As for Cruz??? I dunno, he is apparently overseas handling some mission (mentioned in X) and that's the last we've seen or heard of the man??? Who's doing his job in Quantico? I understand that Esai Morales has another project he's working on and that great for him. However, I do think he was simply casted as the Section Chief to promote the JJ arc last year. There was zero to no thought put into the concept of what happens after the arc is over ??? IT has been rare that we never see the Section Chief in a season for at least several episodes. Has it happened Yes... But I do think that Killing off Erin Strauss so that you can justify this guy coming to start up this pet arc for JJ was a wrong decision. They've backed themselves into a corner now.
OOPS! Barb, when I read your post I apparently missed that you had already bought up the reason Esai Morales may have not been available to reprise his role as Cruz
It's ok... Personally though I wish they could have kept Beth... I'm one of the few who actually thought they went well together. I can't get over the Audrey Hanson, name chosen... come on is that supposed to just save on monogrammed towels or something. And the woman with Rossi... Celine Dustin??? God I wish there was a *facepalm* icon on this blog.
Barbara, I fear that you are absolutely right... I certainly hope that is not the case though. I originally thought that when they cast Esai Morales as Matt Cruz, that he would be their permanent, less doubting of the BAU abilities, less politically motivated, awesome section chief and that the JJ arc would be nothing more than the icing on the cake that is the highly attractive, highly efficient Section Chief Mateo Cruz. I was hoping he would get involved in major cases with them like Strauss did in "In Name and Blood," "100," but for obvious reasons, "25 to Life," "It Takes a Village," "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy," "Hit/Run," and "The Silencer." After all, he has proven that he can be useful to the show of his own volition or momentum in "Angels" and "Demons;" I think he was amazing as Chief in those episodes, overseeing, but letting Hotch be the BOSS that he is. However, although I somewhat agree with you, Barbara, that if they killed off Strauss and cast him purely for the JJ arc then that would be awful and a hasty, poorly thought-out decision, but I have not lost hope. In "Boxed In," Hotch said to Garcia, "Cruz is expecting our assessments for his presentations for JCS and DOJ," to which she replied, "Consider it D-O-N-E," which I thought was funny, but for me that says that Cruz is still in the picture and there might still be hope. I certainly hope so; his character has soo much potential.Long live Matt Cruz, long live Criminal Minds and cheers to everyone of the Criminal Minds Round Table. Feel free to give me Matt Cruz-related feedback. lol
I'm not sure but isn't the actor who plays Cruz not available at this time because he currently has another gig he is doing.I know that Bellamy Young recently became unavailable so that had Beth and Hotch break up,because the actress was no longer available to play the part.
Just want to add my 2 cents here... Watching Unknown Subject on A&E and the plane scene with Hotch and Emily is fantastic. He showing her he understands and acknowledges that she's going to have good days and bad days...THIS type of scene is what Hotch needs to have with JJ.... especially after the events of this episode. This scene shows us that Hotch notices changes in his team. He watches out for them. He understands them and most importantly he's there to help them if and when they ask... Also, LOVE the "He is the perfect Man, he doesn't hog he covers and poops in a box"... Cracks me up everytime...
Yes! That would have been so much better than what we had. If I had the power to rewind time and have this episode re-written, I would have had the team members asking JJ how she was and she'd get exasperated that they were asking because she didn't want to talk about it. I sort of wanted to see Hotch asking to speak with JJ in private (away from the cops) and JJ grumps out and says she doesn't want people asking about it and Hotch would be "Actually, it was about the case..." but he would know something was up. I would absolutely have had Reid go with JJ to the freezer place. Remember that nice moment after "Revelations" where JJ said to Reid that they were not going to split up under any circumstances? I guess they forgot about that.And my cat just dug her claws into my leg because I forgot she was on my lap and tried to move so I forgot the rest of my thoughts... LOL.
I too would have liked to see SOMETHING with the whole team noticing JJ was 'off'... Maybe even a scene like you described adding Reid looking towards JJ with worry, and Hotch telling him. "You two are close go talk to her. If there's anything I need to know Tell me though ok?" And then play out the scenes with Reid.
Respectful opinions, and constructive disagreement is welcomed, but insulting/foul-mouthed, malicious, or just plain disrespectful comments towards anyone are not, and will be removed.