Ok, Right off the bat.. I didn't like the whole Garcia subplot... Seemed thrown in. and disingenuous. I did however like Morgan's reaction to Garcia's crazy idea. and Loved the scene with Morgan and Reid where Reid explained how he got over shooting Philip Dowd in L.D.S.K. As for the case... I liked it.. the one problem was the young college kid Chen.... the character wasn't complete, and it felt like he was just there as a means to an end, but his own difficulties weren't fleshed out enough. The ending was ok.. I would like to think that Janine meant to convey that while Garcia is ridigely against the death penalty, she came to realize she couldn't fundementally change Baylor but she could grant his last wish of being there for him at the end, so he didn't feel abandoned... My only problem is how does her now witnessing his execution going to help her get over the PTSD of shooting him in the first place ?
I know i sound like a complete jerk for saying this but i feel like the Morgan/Garcia relationship in this episode particular was tired and annoying, to me personally. While i understand Morgan and Garcia have a unique bond the show should really show her other relationships, as Reid or JJ could relate much better to what she is feeling as opposed to Morgan. Because Reids's first shooting was to protect Hotch and the hostages, where as in season 2 JJ killed the dogs when she was attacked and later in season 3 JJ shot (the other) Baylor after he weaseled his way into the BAU. However having said that i am sure everyone else's first shooting was probably to protect another person but i feel like this storyline could have been put together in a better way. On another note the case was good but the college kid kinda seemed out of place with the rest of the unsub's story. I have hopes the other possible PTSD subplots aren't as unnatural as Garcia's.
Sorry but I just lost a lot of respect for this character. So pissed that Morgan didn't stay mad at her.That guy was right Garcia was there for herself. It also pissed me off big time that she was so upset about how Morgan was feeling about all this,yet there was no indication that she even gave a damn about how Reid might have felt about it. I did love seeing Kevin again, to bad he can't replace Garcia permanently. The case was interesting even though I felt there was too much unsub, but considering who wrote it I am not surprised. I did feel that Reid got to offer some good insights and he was the one who ultimately figured out what was going on. So that is another plus along with that conversation he had with Morgan. Oh and I absolutely loved Morgan's line to Reid when Reid asked him if Penelope was sick or something.
Glad to see Kevin, Replacing Garcia permanently? NO. Criminal minds and Garcia goes together. Agree she need to be more "calm" like she used to be: emotive, amusing and less fragile
I usually love Garcia but tonight she was so annoying I wanted to throw something at the screen..The case was OK, plenty of Hotch but other favorites seemed to fall off the radar.I will wait for next week.
Where was the plenty of Hotch? He helped with the arrest and then he may as well have fallen off the face of the earth for all he showed up.
My husband agreed with you Meowser, said he thought there was very little TG. I was quite confused by the story and actually had to stop the DVR and have husband explain the part about the student. I wasn't getting it. It still seemed to me there was much Hotch. Maybe not. He also commented that there is no way under the sun Garcia would have been allowed in the prison in the last getup she had on with the big bow and short skirt. He is 26 years with DOC so I would take his word on it.
ZayrinaI'm with you on that. Also once she was told 'no' that was so implausible. When my son was in prison, no was no and if you questioned you were escorted out. I don't think a whole lot of research went into the actual portrayal of going to a prison.
The big thing with the lack of Hotch was that a few seasons ago, Hotch would have said a lot more to Garcia than just: you have vacation days. There would have been a real conversation. And the whole story was confusing, I agree with you, Zayrina.
totally agree with you : i miss Garcia chemistry with the whole team: Hotch Reid and Rossi even JJ. Love Morgan and Garcia relation one of my favorite in a tv show. The story wasn't confusing; she is againt the death penalty, her dilemmas....
This was an okay episode, but...I liked how in the last episode they were back to Hotch being in charge and Rossi contributing more again. This episode? Just back to the JJ/Morgan/Garcia show. Now, I don't begrudge Garcia her time, but no one else got this kind of storyline before. They were the ones to bring up Reid and LDSK. Why didn't he get the same type of thing then? (Okay, I understand that, because it was the first season and they couldn't bring up that.)Why were JJ and Morgan the ones arresting the UnSub at the end? They had no connection to the case. It should have been Reid because he knew the book. Speaking of absences, where the hell was Kate? Last episode, the balance was perfect. This episode? JJ and Morgan steal the show again. If Kate gets the same wallpaper fate that Blake did, I will be very put out. The UnSub was weird and I just feel not well thought out. There was too much of him and not enough of the victims. So...not enough Reid, not enough Hotch, not enough Rossi, not enough Callahan.When did this become the JJ/Morgan show? There ARE other characters.
"When did this become the JJ/Morgan show"?The answer to you question is obvious. It was when Erica Messer became CM's show runner.
Correction: why did this return to being the JJ/Morgan show again after only one episode? Will this continue to be? One episode that's interesting and five that are JJ/Morgan? And last episode was an Erica Messer, and there was tons of the whole team. I loved her writing.
Oh Contrare! Garcia hasn't shown that kind of empathy in a while and it was a huge improvement over The Black Queen. Her turning to Morgan shouldn't be such a big deal, or have we not been watching multiple scenes where they've made G and M special friends, although a nice comment from JJ would have been a plus. I felt Reid's concern and understanding a really nice touch, he really got what she was dealing with and I was pleased that she hung in until the end. I viewed her journey as a quantum leap in personal growth, and yes even altruistic endeavors are never without fulfilling some personal need. I also saw Morgan's inattention to her calls as allowing her to make the journey completely on her own , and letting her grow from the experience. And Yay! He was there to for her in the end. The case was a good one, but I never did get the jest of the student's role, looked incomplete, and I was unsure if the unsub was simply obsessed or was he suffering psychosis. (continuous whisperings ??) So far- so good. Keep it up, CM gang.
The case was quite good although I don't know why they had to show the unsub up front - but then, this is one of JSB's episodes.I also felt the young college kid;s part in it was poorly explained. Nice to see all the team involved and nice to see Hotch kicking in a door instead of Morgan and also to see Reid's smarts used, Very, very nice to see much less of JJ and what there was was more like she used to be - although on a very trivial point I was amused by her saunter through the station with both hands in her pockets - so women really walk around like that?As for Garcia's melodramatic meltdown - could she please move to a less traumatic job and we get Kevin instead? Kevin came over as mature and professional and an actual grown up - unlike Garcia.
I noticed JJ's odd walk too. I don't understand why she is dressing so unprofessionally and walking so weirdly.
It made me think of a child trying to emulate the big boys! I almost expected her to talk in an exaggeratedly deep voice! It certainly looked weird to me.
OMG I commented on JJ with her hands in her pants pockets too! Also my husband was laughing about how unsteady Garcia was in her high heels at times.
It made me think of a child trying to emulate the big boys!Exactly! It is so hard for me to take JJ seriously lately.
i like JJ walks a lot. She isn't a maniquin, she is a top agent
Garcia was able to watch torture videos, but she never made such a big thing of that. She quitly suffered...yes, a liked her reactions better in previous seasons, she is becoming more fragile and nervous lately and i hope she gets more mature about it and still amusiing one of my favorite characters. If she ever leaves the show i wan't watch criminal miinds
So, After stepping back and going over everything about this episode I've a few more points to make out. Some of which you all have already pointed out.. I just want to expand on. 1. Garcia/Morgan was just juvenile. IF this whole concept was planned, it was done so poorly. Not only was this all about 'Garcia's" fallout from Demon's BUT it was a selfish fallout. At no point ever in this episode did they even 'hint' about her going to the ONE person who she should have gone to who went through the 'incident with her' and that's Reid. I could have written an entire subplot where Reid stays behind trying to help Garcia through her nightmares and have it culminate with Reid explaining to Garcia how he got over killing Dowd. Maybe have her put the victims up on her wall? I must say Morgan getting indignant and telling her to 'let him know when she was done washing his feet', made me proud of Morgan. I liked that Morgan didn't answer his phone every time Garcia called. Don't understand why she couldn't talk to Sam..makes me think they really don't have good relationship. Kevin was professional throughout the case and I can tolerate him well. Man he's gotten grey! Loved seeing Hotch breaking down doors but then 'poof' he's MIA again and it turned into the JJ/Morgan/Garcia show...The case was good. That said it was disjointed. Things were brought up 'like the bomber college student' that just didn't make sense and muddied the case waters. After that I was hard pressed to follow along with the real case as I kept thinking about 'where's the bomb the kid was seen putting together? The case ending was unfulfilling and again left me wondering how, where, and why it was resolved the way it did. How ever that could be because I was distracted by again the bombing college student. I get that Janine might have been trying to convey that Morgan realized Garcia needed to go through this alone, and after all is said and done he's there for her. As Rossi said to him in "Lucky", "I'm giving you a chance at personal growth"... Maybe that's what happened between Morgan/Garcia. The bus stop scene.... plain and simple too over the top and unnecessary. Kate in this episode was flat and wooden for as little as we saw her. The whole Baylor 'name' thing??? Couldn't they go back and see they used that name before? Why is Garcia's nemsis' always named Baylor... (Penelope & Burn). Can't research go back that far in episodes??? I'm seeing a trend here in my writing which sadly I don't like to have happen.. That trend is that the subplot took over from the case and did the show about crimes/criminals and the cases this group profiles a huge disservice. There are definitely better 'team' centric episodes out there where the cases were just as rivetting as the subplot. (Route 66, Hanley Waters, Big Sea, Painless, From Childhood's Hour, just to name a few)Over all, sadly I give this episode a 6 out of 10... Was just too choppy and disjointed for my liking, Janine can and has done so much better.
First of all I disclose that my views about the death penalty are about the same as Garcia's; for me is a disservice to Justice because it lowers those who ask/impose it to the same level than the murderers themselves. And should say too that I came to this episode with a huge amount of wariness - because of the theme and because what I'd seen in the promos.Starting with the easy part, I must say that I liked the case quite a lot. Contrary to what I'm reading happened to others, I got what the college student was about (simply put, was Leu's accomplice), so probably that helped.Again most of the main characters were used "in character" and contributed to solve the case, specially Hotch was unmistakably the boss and the profiler, and Reid was allowed to use his powerful brain to connect the dots - clues gathered and his knowledge, - faster and sooner than anyone else could. Missed some more of Rossi's and Callahan's.What I did not like one bit was seeing Morgan and JJ paired once again during Chow's interrogation and Leu's arrest; they do NOT work together, - are jarring!, - Morgan had a big part to play in the other half of the episode, JJ had had a solo with that victim's sister... why not to use 2 out of Hotch/Rossi/Callahan/Reid in those 2 scenes??? As a rule of thumb, when time is short, use the leads!Neither did I like to see the unsub's face so soon, NEVER adds anything to advance the plot, but kills the suspense each time this is done (too many times). Knowing the victims were adult males, and seeing their reactions, on the other hand, I can understand: adult male victims are rarer than most think (specially critics).Garcia's part was complex, and Kirsten was fantastic. We can't forget she has been sleep deprived for months now due to the terrible nightmares she is suffering. Hotch knows it, and reacts accordingly to her overexcited attitude; she needs time to short herself out and gives it to her. Morgan knows it even better and is his friend - in theory,- and reacts like a selfish a$$; she needs him to understand that she's not well, that she's feeling confused, that nothing she tries is helping her, and instead of listening and using his supposed profiling skills to give her options, if not solutions, tries to impose on her his views. Reid, knowing what she's going through without even talking with her, just highlights how horrible Morgan's reactions are.We can't forget either, she says it plainly, that she does know who and what Greg Baylor is, she does know what's happened for him to land on death row, and of course, she's perfectly aware of what would have happened to Reid, and herself, if she hadn't shot him. She does know too she is looking for something for herself, as she acknowledges to Baylor when he spats that truth to her face, that's a big part of her reasons but not the only one - and this is the crux of her quest, she doesn't know what more there is hiding in her mind for her to start healing.She certainly achieves several startling realizations that help her through this trip, and may help her in her more important healing journey:- During the bus-stop scene, soon after the conversation starts, where she is going and what kind of person she's going to visit comes to her mind, for real. The rest of that scene was a waste of time.- The killer confessing he is alone, that he has nobody else, brings front and center, and again, for real, what had been on her mind in abstract form; he is a killer, but he isn't one of those unfeeling men many times her team tracks and apprehends.- Morgan not answering her last call once again gives her the courage to go to Baylor's execution because it dawns on her what he is exactly feeling and why he has asked.Morgan shouldn't have been there waiting for her at the end. That was rightfully Reid's place.
I didn't like the treatment of Morgan to Garcia. If Morgan wanted to help her this hasn't been reflected in the episode, on the contrary, it seemed that he didn't understand what she was happening. Is Morgan a hard super COP that didn't have nightmares when he was a rookie? I have missed that understanding, Reid understood it and I thought that Morgan also, but then acted totally selfish.As Reid says, Garcia carries with her a laptop, not a gun...The case was weird, as if something was missing... I believe that about the student was not well explained.
The actual team angle was interesting, though a bit sloppily written. Now granted I personally love the idea of Dante’s Inferno as the basis for a serial killer, but I would want something a bit grander than what we saw. You know, someone as fancy and complicated as The Fisher King. If you are going to bring in the one of the most florid and evocative pieces of literature to inspire your killer, I wish that the story and killer was an equal match for Inferno, and he wasn’t worthy in my crime thriller watching eyes. You would think the unsub would target individuals who actually committed the crime that matched the circles of hell, but instead is attacking surrogates for his father would made him recite and remember. Does this unsub just follow people around looking for mean fathers, or does he just stumble upon them and decides to kill? He was a strange blend of organization and delusion.Very convenient for the team that only one person fits their profile (Nathan, who wasn't even the actual killer or connected in any way). I would love to see what the team would do if the unsub wasn't the type who shared his plans online. But then that would break the formula for the show. Nathan is rather delusional. Why did they assume that Nathan has some sort of connection to the killer? Just because he’s into Dante and has dreams of killing people? That was a bit of stretch from Nathan to the actual unsub. I mean, Nathan didn't do any of the actual killings, nor does he seem to know about the killings. So it was a bit of a stretch to assume the English teacher was the actual killer. These delusions are a bit over the top, but hey, it is a Janine episode. Finally! The team arrests an unsub and doesn't kill him on the spot.
Now on to Penelope’s story. Her guilt wasn't even really explored, or WHY she felt guilty. I mean, she didn't kill anyone, and she isn't the reason he is on death row. He apparently plead guilty to many OTHER murders (that had nothing to do with the BAU or Penelope in the slightest) and forfeited all appeals. So how the hell is Penelope feeling in any way responsible? I honestly don’t get it. He is not on death row for his attack on Reid. He is on death row for the myriad of other killings. And how exactly was he tied to all these other murders? Did he just confess out of the blue, or were the cops able to tie him to other murders and he just confessed? But again, WHY confess, and for the death penalty no less when he was obviously a very skilled criminal? At least Greg accurately deduced what Penelope was all about, that she was there for herself. And I call so much BS on him being executed so quickly. That is completely and utterly unrealistic for how death penalty cases work, even if a prisoner waives all appeals. It takes years to be executed, and not just mere months. But seriously, Greg now is scared to die and he wants Penelope to be there with him? This is just ridiculous. There was no explanation why this guy just basically threw away 10 years of his life if he is scared to die. He didn't have to plead guilty and waive his appeals. He could have rode that system out until the bitter end. No real explanation for why a hardened criminal would up and confess to multiple murders? How did the cops get from arresting him for attempted murder on a federal agent to locking him for all these other murders? Again, none of which has anything to do with Penelope. This storyline just feels more like emotional manipulation (particularly because of the unrealistic compressed execution timeline) and trying to force some sort of (unearned) sympathy from the audience, and really just highlights Penelope’s narcissism. She just kept saying “I” over again, even though she wasn’t the reason Greg Baylor was being executed. But she wanted to nail herself to the cross like it is within her power to stop this or it was her fault that he was there, even though he did this to himself, and apparently wanted this for some weird reason. She shot this guy to protect Reid, and nobody seems to be concerned for him. Hell, she doesn't even seem to be concerned for him, because she is so wrapped up in her own self-involved, manufactured guilt. I personally felt the writers went with the cheap and easy route of having Greg be executed rather than having her truly deal with her feelings with her friends, particularly with Reid. Is the audience supposed to feel sympathy for Greg, because his execution seemed to be more of a focus? Hopefully though this ends this chapter, because it just felt too much and over the top.
It was also interesting Reid called Penelope by her first name. Granted, I think their continued use of last names when they are supposed to friends is decidedly odd, but I don't think we have heard Reid call her Penelope before. Maybe they have grown closer since surviving their mutual attack? But if that was the case, why wouldn't Penelope be confiding in Reid, since he is obviously concerned for her emotional state? Nice callback to Reid killing Phillip Dowd though. It was that similarity with Penelope that I noted when I first heard about the whole PTSD angle for Penelope. I was hoping it would set up a nice moment between the two of them, where Penelope opens up to Reid and he could have talked her through how he dealt with shooting someone. But again, Reid actually killed Dowd, and Penelope just wounded Greg Baylor. However, I personally think Reid’s characterization that she is incapable of doing her job unless she watches kitten (or was it panda) videos to be somewhat infantilizing and insulting, but I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised because the writers have been infantilizing Reid and Penelope for years, whereas before they were both professional, if a bit quirky. She has been at this job for 10 years, so the idea that she hasn't developed any mental toughness from looking at crime scene photos for 10 years is a bit unrealistic. I just have a problem with the show treating Penelope like a super fragile special snowflake. She apparently wants to work in the BAU, and working in the BAU means encountering evidence of some of humanity’s depravity. I’m sure she could work in some sort of safer area of the FBI, like cybercrime or financial crime if this job is too much for her.
really hope Reid and Garcia come closer, they really work very well together. They always being very good professionals. yes sometimes the kittens pics is annoying....depending of the scenes
The best part of this episode lasted fifteen seconds and was the one comedic moment in ten years to the best of my recollection. At the beginning when Garcia was babbling to Aaron, they both did this up, down, up from their chairs, with a couple of whimsical musical notes. But TG could chew gum and I'd give a standing ovation.
I completely agree.
agree too, miss more scenes from Hotch and Garcia, recall some in previous seasons
So...I rewatched it. The Garcia thing made more sense this time around and while I still think there should have been more Reid comforting Garcia, I think it made sense the way it did happen. I guess the reason I disliked it so much was because I was expecting something different and didn't like what I got. But rewatching made me realize it was a good episode and it made the episode smoother. There was more Rossi and Callahan then I realized—they contributed more than I originally thought.Still don't think it made sense for JJ and Morgan to a) be interviewing college kid, and b) be the ones to make the arrest. But overall, this episode is actually pretty good and I loved the song at the end. It gave it the perfect flavor.
One thing i love about garcia is that she is happy with who she is, she is unpretentious, a geek pc person, funny and perky, amusing. able to bring her profesionalim , she maintains some vital optimism and a sense of humor . Yes she hates to watch crimes scenes pics. But if you remember in previous episodes (seasons) she did watch pics, or even torture scenes (Reid) but she never over acted. she didn't force her way. She did not have some kind of "violent reactions" But lately she looks more fragile, gesticulates a lot, and even exagerates sometimes. Bring back that Garcia that i love the most, Great episode by the way.
I am so over all the hate for JJ...she is my favorite out of all of them. She's a profiler now, she should have just as much screen time as all the others.
Yes, Just as much, not more, NOT 90% of the screen time while Hotch, Reid, and Rossi get 3%. That is not fair. There isn't much to JJ's character that I see appealing and understandable as "favorite character". Hotch, Reid and Rossi are more understandable to me as a favorite. In the beginning, JJ was always bland and vanilla, but I guess she was more likeable, Not to say that I liked her, but she was likeable. But since she came back in S7 it was all JJ all the time, trying to make her appear tougher, more experienced and smarter than everyone else. YEAH RIGHT! I hate that so much, especially since every other character is more interesting than the MarySueNinjaBarbieSuperMomWannabe. In My opinion, of course
Why does JJ always put her hands in her pockets?
Respectful opinions, and constructive disagreement is welcomed, but insulting/foul-mouthed, malicious, or just plain disrespectful comments towards anyone are not, and will be removed.