With 8 minutes still to go... I might as well get this out of the way now... this episode was BAD.... Hotch is reduced to 'supporting' roll... JJ can do everything now..... Unsubs were interesting to a degree but WAY WAY too much of them... the dancing scene was a farce... on a scale of 1 - 10 I'd give this fiasco a NEGATIVE 10...
OMG Are we ever going to get a break from that effing Mary Sue. Why I'm totally shocked she wasn't the one to take the unsub down saving the life of the therapist.
Nah.... left that for her buddy Morgan! *blech*.... on bright side Promo for next week looked great.. :)
Well at least he was with Reid. Don't be deceived by the promo. Although I hope you are right.But I guarantee you there will probably be a ton of JJ in that one too.She is after all Messer's GOLDEN GIRL. And Messer apparently believes everyone is as enamored with that character as she is.Meanwhile Hotch and Reid have the misfortune of being Messer's least favorite characters. Which is why they are often backburned. I know Reid got a bit of a reprieve in season 8, but I'm pretty sure the network had more to do with that than Messer herself.
why do you think that the Network has more to do than Messer regarding Reid's reprieve? I would say his disappearing act started around season six, but since season 7 Reid's character has being only secondary, and normally only to be the butt of a joke. I wonder why the CBS rehired both Gibson and Gubler with rather big salaries only to put them on the episodes for only glimpses...
Yes that is true, but supposedly even though EM didn't official become the show runner until season 7, she was in a effect co-running the show in season 6.And it is widely believed among many of Reid's fans,myself included,and with good reason, that she doesn't like Reid.I'm told that one of the reasons is she doesn't know how to write for him and sadly the same can be said of most of those writers who work with her.Realistically though EM and these writers don't do any of those characters justice with the way they write them.The only difference is,if you are one of EM's favorites(JJ/Morgan/Garcia) you're likely to get more focus.While characters who tend to be her least favorites(Hotch,Reid) get less focus.I believe CBS agreed to this much screen time for AJ & KV as a way of appeasing the actresses since they didn't get as big of a raise as they asked for, and because many misguided fans mistakenly turned it into a sexist issue.
Thanks for your answer. It makes a lot of sense, specially the last part. I wonder why the CBS would pay big salaries as the one of both Gibson and Gubler, and then allow the show runner to use them at minimum. Are they counting on their fans to tun on every Wednesday anyway, despite the disappointment? Can't they read their ratings? They have been falling since season six... Also, I wonder if they are planning on re-hiring Gubler by the end of this season. The network seems to be disconnected with the show runner. I remember that the writers team wrote the headaches story thinking that they will eliminate Reid by the end of season six, and then the CBS booked Gubler for more seasons. It doesn't make sense. It's just like buying a dress, and then hanging it in the closet until you gain weight and then you can't use it anymore..
Oops, hit the wrong "reply." Another try: I don't know how any of the salary and contract negotiations work, but without Reid's input, I don't see how they will solve the cases. Wonderful actor, wonderful character. If the writers don't know how to script for a genius, then the producers should contact the writers for the TV series Numbers.
I read that Gubler's previous contract ended in season seven, and then he was re-hired for seasons 8&9. So, now I really don't get why the writers were trying to write Reid character out back from the beginning of season six, since he had a contract over season seven, but it is well stated that the headache story line was meant to lead to his exit from the show. And right after that, Gubler became a secondary character in terms of screen time and contribution to the development of the story. I guess if you are a writer you could talk to people specialised in dealing with highly gifted (or in this case, profoundly gifted) students, so to at least have an idea on how to write the character... Lazy writers...
Not only Gubler's character but TG, JM and JT are in that situation. The focus is mostly on JJ, Morgan and Garcia now. Too bad and the show is not as good as it use to be. Season 9 started great, stumble big time with '200th' and it keeps stumbling with this episode.
and I have to add, if things do not change soon, CM will go to my DVR to be watched when have the time or if I feel like watching it. for the past 6 years I have made sure to watch CM live every wednesday night, but this is about to change. sad but this CM, the one I have seen in 200 and this week is not the CM I care for. I can rewatch endlessly episode from season 1-5 but cannot say that with s6-9 except for a few episodes here and there.The writers can write for whoever they want, as I viewer I can choose if what the writers are doing interest me, sadly the last two episodes did not interest me.
So far this season is like watching a train wreck.... Trip starts out fantastic... then you get the feeling something isn't quite right.... moves onto a break in the track.....you think things might just get better until you realize that the crash is inevitable. I myself hope TG, JM and JT quit after this debacle of a season. JT especially she's up for a contract..... This stopped being the CM I fell in love with since Erica took over. She might be a very nice person. But she's a lousy show runner.
I saw whispers on one of the forums about a JJ/Morgan spin off - it feels this season like they are doing this already!! JJ is completely dominating the whole season and I don't know how much more I can take. I guess Debra was right when she says above that all this screen time was part of the contract negotiations for AJ and KV. Sadly the result has been to rip the fandom apart especially over JJ. Instead of being a strong member of a great team she is now a character that is either swooned over with "massive feels" or loathed and reviled as the biggest Mary Sue in the last 3 decades! I wish CBS had let her and KV go.
Where did you read that? So far there are no news about this. But if that was to happen writers should remember what happen with the first spin off. As for AJ and KV getting more sreentime after their negotiations, good for them, not so good for CM. Here and on many others CM forums/blogs people are complaining about the same things, too much time spend on JJ, Garcia and Morgan.
I just googled for 'Morgan JJ spin off' and an article listed on top had a similar title. You can read it. It mentions the undercover stuff and things both actors want to do. Anyway, I also agree that Hotch is in the same situation than Gubler, but I focused on the last one because his contract ends by the end of this season. I don't think these writers leave Rossi in the background. He is in almost every arrest and so far he had two centric episodes. Still, I would like to say that I feel like he is a secondary character. For me, the main ones are now JJ and Morgan; on a second level of importance, Garcia and Rossi. Everyone else is just there to say some lines, and they take turns to get the post of 'being a secondary character of the day'. What I still don't get is why, as an enterprise, you would pay a lot of money for Tripplehorn, Gibson and Gubler, and then use them at minimum. If they wanted JJ to become a main character they should have agree to pay her what she wanted. It really doesn't make sense to me.
Found the article at http://www.theloop.ca/showbiz/tv-guide/news/article/-/a/2538946/-Criminal-Minds-JJ-and-Morgan-spin-off-brewing-But what this say, it was suggested by the interviewer and of course AJ and Shemar would be happys about that but nothing is in the work. Also it says that both actors were hoping for their characters to have more screentime together. but again this is fine. We fans often ask for more screentimes for our fav pairing; here we often want Hotch paired with Reid or Rossi or JJ. Some ask for more with Reid and Morgan etc...As much as i would like to complain about Thomas Gibson lack of screentime this season have to look back at this season and he as been in many scenes, be it in 'Final Shots' , 'Route 66', '200th' etc...The one who have been pretty much left out are MGG and JT.
I've read the article now about a possible spin off and it does look only like a journalist exaggerating things. Just goes to show how rumour spreads as I have seen mention on other forums. I agree that this season it is MGG and JT who have been most left out and there are only 9 episodes left! I wonder how soon we will learn whether they will sign a new contract.
Well, apparently there was a previous article of TV Gude Canada suggesting this, and then it was used for this journalist. Still, rumours may be enhanced by the fact that this has been JJ season, (and it was even announced it will be), and the official facebook page of Criminal Minds keeps posting a lot of Shemar Moore pictures, along with Jjs and Garcia, and only a bunch of the other actors. Also, Moore was the represent of the CBS in two big events: one commenting from the red carpet and another presenting an award. If not for JJ, the CBS seems to be cooking something for Moore.
And on a second reading, I just read that apparently the Network wants season 10 to be the last one!
Shemar Moore has already said Season 10 is his last. And if MGG doesn't sign for Season 10, I won't be there to see it!! I'm only hanging in there to see Matthew - even if it is only a glimpse now and then.
Is Season 10 a sure thing or does that get finalized around May 2014? With talks of a spinoff for some characters, TG directing and doing the Son of Batman voice, along with his talk show comments to return to comedy - changes are on the way if not already here.
The article mentioned above says the tenth will be the last because the network wants to terminate the show. Gibson has a contract all through this season and the next one, so I guess he will be around until the end...
This is just my take on why we see less of MGG this season ( I can't really prove it ), is that he may have requested less air time. I've gotten the feeling the past few years that he's lost interest in doing a TV series and would like to spend more time acting or directing smaller independent films. He has done about five in the past three years, which he couldn't have done if he had more air time on CM. At thirty-three, this is his prime time to branch out and work in developing his craft, especially in directing. Independent films aren't able to pay much, so I'm sure he appreciates his salary from CM and also he may be hesitant to leave do his loyalty to his growning fan base. I wouldn't be surprised to see season 10 being the last one for this show. Seriously ... that's a long run.
Thanks, that is good news. Am imagining what the finale will be like. The writers can't please all of us. As I've stated, I want 42 minutes of Aaron scowling. After ten seasons, sounds best to wrap it up. We'll see our favorites in other projects.
Things to take into consideration about CM renewal after season 10. First yes back at the end of season 8 CBS may have feel like S10 would be the last season, that was probably base on shows they had in development but that have not been successful for CBS, both of their new dramas and the new comedies are a bust. CM ratings in demo 18-49 are still #2 on CBS behind NCIS and third in 25-54. CM is still a hot property in the international market coming in # 4 after NCIS, CSI and CIS:Miami, mind you all international sale go to ABC ( http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-show-ncis-is-europes-583082 ) , CBS makes money out the domestic syndication. This is where it gets difficult for CM to get renewed for a s11 and that is by then all the cast ( I don't know about JT and MGG since we do not know the state of their negotiations with CBS/ABC) will see the end of their contract at the end of s10. We already know Shemar will leave, he said so in many interviews. We know Thomas been talking about going back to do comedy. Would CBS be interested in CM without them? We know from the deadline articles about the last round of negotiations with TG and JM that CBS would renew CM only if they were onboard (http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/criminal-minds-contract-negotiations-kirsten-vangsness-a-j-cook-may-not-come-back/ ) would CBS wants CM without TG? According to the deadline article, no. CM renewal for S11 would have more to do with cast signing new contracts ( the economics for a veteran shows is much more on the pricey side than a new show), having ok ratings and what new shows on CBS will do (ratings wise) than anything else.
Well, I guess that if you find out that JT and / or MG are hired for one more season, the tenth will be the last one. I think TG wouldn't mind doing more CM, and the same goes for JM. And if its over they will both get new jobs quickly. MGG gained a lot of experience on the job he really wants to do, which is directing, and I guess that as long as the CBS allows him to do that, he will keep coming. He is very good at making connections because the people that work with him seems to be more than pleased with him, but all those movies and documentaries were done while the CM crew was on filming hiatus. Nevertheless, I don't think the problems with the male cast (TG, JM and MGG) lies on the amount of screen time (although it helps), but its more like how little significance their participations have nowadays, and that is linked to scarce continuity and poor writing. That being said, I wouldn't mind if Morgan gots promoted to another show, and I can only wish JJ would be promoted to run the pentagon. If anyone else is staying, I can surely find a way to put up with Garcia.
A lot could happen. The writers could knock it out of the park with S10 and the show could continue. Son of Batman may put TG in real demand for voice and other work, but we don’t know yet (oh, that voice). It’s noted that CBS would renew CM only if TG and JM are on board, but Major Crimes is coming back for its third season as a spinoff of The Closer after Kyra Sedgwick left, and she was immensely popular, so it can be done. It’s true that the new CBS shows are a bust. I know nothing, but do agree it’s possible the cast member may be requesting less screen time for whatever reason.
I felt the writer tried to involve all the characters but there was too much JJ. It wasn't in dealing with repercussions from her ordeal last time, either. She was just taking charge of everything again. She was at the crime scene. She was back in time for the giving of the profile and coming up plenty of ideas. She interviewed the surviving victim. Yeah, I go a long with the person that said they expected her to take down the unsub as well. It's just a steady stream of JJ these days. I did like the scene with Reid plunging the toilet and his lines weren't quite as dumbed down as they have often been in recent seasons. I was glad Blake got to interview the wife. Rossi had some input, but Hotch may as well not have been there after delivering the "wheels up in 30" weekly line. He is the team leader for crying out loud. Give the guy something to do, I understood why it was necessary to see the unsubs early on, but there was entirely too much time spent on them. The ridiculous dancing scene needed to be drastically shortened. And you could tell that therapist was going to be a victim from the get go. So good but not great on this one. Good for trying to keep all of the team involved, but you still could do so much better. Thank you for not bringing up Blech on Valentine's Day. Just let that obnoxious stalker fade away, please.
Dull, dull, dull! Too much unsub and sooo predictable. The only slight bit of suspense was when the unsub went after the therapist and even then we knew Morgan and Reid would get there in time. I used to sit on the edge of my seat with CM but not for some time now. And do not get me started on JJ! They should retitle the show - Jennnifer Jareau Super Profiler!! Enough with JJ please - lets think about using hmmm Hotch or Reid or Rossi or Blake more. I know they were in this episode a little( well apart from Hotch!!) but the focus was still on JJ and enough is enough. At least as said above Reid was shown more realistically - although why wasn't he being using to trawl through old files looking for other victims rather than Morgan, JJ, Rossi and Blake?? Have they forgotten he reads 20,000 words a minute? The cutesy moments at the end?? NO NO NO!! Someone tell the show that Garcia is approaching 40 - she was in her mid 30's when she was shot way back in Season 3. You would expect her to mature a little!Dull and disappointing. Eagerly awaiting "Gabby" - it must be a step up surely.
I will walk in the door of my comments on this episode being totally honest. I did not have high hopes for this one. That said, I still absolutely believe in my open mind approach that I will not judge a CM episode until I've viewed the final product on my TV screen. That's why I have my TV; to watch my favorite TV show. So, while my original thought was in the back of my head; I just watched.With my open minded approach, I hope that I'll get bamboozled and the episode turns out to be terrific. In this case, it didn't; however, it wasn't a total bomb in my world. The word that kept coming up in my head was "different".IMHO, Kim Harrison tried to take a new approach to a CM episode. That's a risky choice to make. Yet, in a totally creepy way, I saw some merits in the approach. I, too, thought there was too much unsubs in the beginning half. Yet, in my world, it set the story for the profile that the team developed. Like I said, it was a different touch on going about to get a profile, but not my fav as well.I lamented loudly about the total lack of my man TG, and for that matter JM as well. However, as I was watching, I thought back to a very large convo at another CM chat site to the episode before MGG directed his first, Mosley Lane. The Reid fans complained bitterly about him being so light in the episode. The rest of us said, "Hey, he's getting ready to direct the next ep. He's probably busy."The Reid fans fired back. "Just wait until it happens to your favorite character." While that didn't happen in TG's CM directing debut, it obviously, in my world, occurred in this one. So it happened to my favorite character and I say to them "good point" and accept it. And IMHO, the same can be said of JM. I've read articles by the CM exec staff saying that it takes three weeks pre production for a director; the actual shot/filming; and three weeks post production. Since JM directed 9.13, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt to JM's absence as well.Yet, that left the rest of the cast to carry the load. I sorta appreciated that. Don't get me wrong: my luvs for TG and JM are strong; however, giving the rest a chance to shine was one of things I'll take away from this ep as a positive. And IMHO, there was only one person that could interview Judy Anderson. Which gives me the chance to say again how much I love Alex Blake and Jeanne!Also, IMHO, JJ, the soft voice of comfort yet confidence, was the only one to conduct the cognitive interview with the only living survivor (sorry, her name escapes me) of Alan's attack. IMHO, it was the most powerful scene of the episode.The Morgan/Garcia stuff I truly could have lived without as well. Yet, IMHO, it book ended the episode of a relationship gone so horribly wrong with relationships that are going right. "Boo Boo" Harrison gets a few brownie points for that.Normally, my grading curve would deduct points for the lack of TG and JM. However, as I previously stated, I can understand that.Yet, HMO final analysis, this episode gets a C+.
Oh crayola! I forgot to add my comment about my FAV scene.Reid doing the plunger on the toilet with JJ giving him pointers and Reid saying, "Where's Morgan when we need him?" was priceless!I hope that's on YouTube soon!!
It is rare for me to actually dislike any episode completely but this one I did dislike and very intensely. I hated the shaky camera thing.. I hated the utter lack of TG and JM. Sorry, I like the other characters but none of them can carry the show, even when combined. I did think that Jeanne did well with the interrogations scenes..I hated knowing who the unsubs were from the start. It was necessary for the course of the story, but that is not something I enjoy. I was set to enjoy Garcia (Kirsten always gets it right to me) on a date. Sorry but they are making this boyfriend as dopey as Kevin was. The ending was forced with the double date being particularly forced. UGH UGH UGH!!!! Please send this episode to season 8 where it belongs. I look forward to next week.
Big plus for me about this episode was that there were two killers and not just two..they were married. That woman for me was even creepier that the man. This episode wasnt' 'omg, so good' but i still liked it. Bathroom scene with Reid and JJ was funny + Reid, Blake and Rossi together, Rossis' comment was hilarious. :D And i liked that ending.
The episode was better than I expected. It was a solid "real" CM epsiode to me. A little too much of the unsubs, but the dynamic between the two unsubs was interesting as was the therapy part. We got quite a bit profiling from the BAU team. I liked Blake doing the interrogation but am like many others really tired of JJ. The Morgan/Garcia scenes were short and suprisingly tolerable. To blame the lack of Hotch scenes on the writer is IMO unfair, because TG was busy prepping for the directing of 9.16. We saw photos of him scouting for locations while this episode was filmed. He probably even asked for less screentime to have more time for the directing job.I liked the dark atmosphere and the directing of this episode. Felix Alacala is my fave CM director because his episodes look raw and realistic.
This episode was chock full of profiling, and that is a refreshing change, particularly from the previous week. There was detailed analysis of the crime initially (though I wish the director would have paced the round table scene slower, because they were all speaking so fast that it was a bit hard to take in), the crime scenes, the interrogation scene and what not. Since I prefer the talkier episodes, it was nice to see the team talking through the crime together and figuring it all out. THIS is how I like to see Criminal Minds, because I like to watch the team figure out the crime and the psychology behind it, and I like to watch the episode unfold through the team's eyes. They worked well with the local law enforcement officers well, and I liked the digging in to past cases that fit the current MO to realize how far these killings went back. I like them profiling to figure out the different emotional dynamics of the husband and wife, and his MO when he killed solo and what that meant for his psychological state. I liked that they figured out the couple was in therapy and that the husband likely felt emasculated by the therapist and she was a likely next victim. The entire scene when Reid called the therapist to warn her and them arriving to arrest him was well done (and bonus points for Reid comfort). The interrogation scene with the wife was really great and I liked to see Alex do her thing of slowly psychologically separating the wife from the husband. Even though we've seen many cognitive interviews over the years, this one was the most disturbing, and that is a good thing. The crime she survived was intensely disturbing, and the scene communicated the terror and helplessness she must have felt. Of course there were some things I didn't like. While I didn't mind that we saw the unsubs, there was WAAAAY too much of them. I didn't mind watching the murder scenes, but I felt we didn't need to see the therapy scenes or them romancing each other. Likewise, I think it would have been a more effective episode if we didn't see the wife before the opening credits. Like I said, I like learning about the crime from the BAU's perspective, and I feel the audience should not know more about the crimes and the unsubs than the team. Kim could have easily held back that particular piece of information until we watched Reid/JJ and Morgan/Rossi figure that key piece out on their own (though I will say I liked those two scenes of them piecing the evidence together to figure out the unsubs were a male/female team). She could also have put in some of those scenes as flashbacks after the team figured out the critical pieces of information and behavioral clues.One GIANT plot hole in my opinion is that we have zero clue how the BAU figured out who the unsubs were in the first place. All we knew is that the unsub likely drove a tow truck and his first name was Alan. How they got to the point of knowing who he was and where he lived was one of those magic things that just made me roll my eyes. If the episode had cut out all the superfluous scenes with the unsubs, Kim could easily have written in some bridging scene explaining how they keyed on them as the suspects. All right, I'll say it. I'm sick of JJ. It's been building all season and it just continues. I liked her before she left and I liked her in seasons seven and eight, but for some reason, she sets my teeth on edge this season, and I hate the fact that she is so dominant in episodes this season, and something about her character just sets me off. I kind of wish she would just go away or fade into the background for several episodes. But that is unlikely to happen.
I agree about the dopiness of the final scene. It was just too saccharine and "meet cute" for that double date. The same thing with the opening scene between Morgan and Penelope. I just rolled my eyes at the thought that Penelope-an experienced woman in her mid 30s- seemed to think that Morgan's statement that she should directly tell Sam what she wanted was such a revelation. Really? That just makes Penelope look incredibly stupid, and she's not.
So... if you compare this episode to the last one, this was ok. At least they did some profiling and there were some serial killers. I also liked the direction, although sometimes that camera waved a little bit too much and the story have some holes, but not huge sink holes than the previous episode. The dance scene made me laugh, and I am not really sure why, and I liked all the guest actors. Still, there were some things that I didn't enjoy at all: the scenes between JJ, Morgan and Garcia were very annoying, and I guess JJ needed two weeks to get over the hangover of that bar night. And Garcia's side story was too bad. A previous comment said "woman in her mid 30s...", well, she is in her forties, and she looks like those old mommies that desperately try to look like a teenager, and fails, so, I can see her looking incredibly stupid, with or without that lines. And, as some others pointed out, JJ-Mary Sue was again everywhere. You know, I though I would hate Blake since she was the newest girl, but since the show use her at minimum, you don't even notice she is actually there. I never imagined I would dislike someone on the show at the same level than I dislike the new Garcia (presenting cases, super-hacker, inappropriate behaviour and language, and fake horror at staring at the pictures), specially because KV is not playing her anymore. PG is now KV, but then again, now I realize I am totally fed up of JJ. Even that raspy voice annoys me to no end.
Aaron/TG could have phoned in his part, and I know it’s to free him up for directing and other projects. TG, please come back, you’re killing me here. The dancing scene was very painful to watch. There was nothing sexual about it, and it was quite the opposite in that it was clumsy. JJ is wearing very thin. I like AJ but I don’t like the portrayal of JJ. When Morgan told Garcia to be direct about what she wants, I was thinking, “Whaaaat?” It so did not fit Garcia’s character. I was sympathetic toward the therapist, and since the show is violent at times, I wanted Morgan to blast the bad guy away rather than just haul him away. Too much unsub, not enough team. Not by a long shot.
Anyone notice the filming is different/bad? If it changed b4 this episode, how did I not notice it? Whats up? Hurt my eyes. Almost seems like sitcom-y. . . Thoughts? Am I nuts or did anyone else notice?
The shaky camera is actually a cinematographic technique that is known as 'hand-held-camera'. Sometimes the directors use this resource to depict a sense of urgency, instability or danger. It was used in this one, although not in all of it. In some scenes I would say it worked, such as for instance, the rescue of the therapist, but in some other scenes, I found it unnecessary.
I agree MGG role is minimized this season but honestly, it is much better than the way than previous seasons. They bullied him before; ridiculed him, made him look childish, and spout facts instead of insight. It was a middle school attitude toward a smart person, and they did not get that even though part of his old story is about that exact treatment in his childhood.This season he is allowed to be a bit smarter, has more mature and competent persona than recently, even though it is minimal. Maybe he at least convinced them to stop embarrassing hiim. On a personal note, I am sure he does not mind letting his friend AJ get a shot at major screen time before this whole series ends and she has to find her next job. I did like this episode if only for the toilet plunger scene. That had to be some behind the scenes hilarity, making MGG do that. And all to pull out a condom! They all probably had a huge laugh at that, including Matthew.
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