Wednesday, January 16, 2013

Criminal Minds Comments Thread for episode 8.12 "Zugzwang"



Here you can post comments about tonight episode of Criminal Minds 'Zugzwang' writen by writer and co-executive producer Breen Frazier.

48 comments:

  1. This was an amazing episode! Well done Criminal Minds cast and crew!!!

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  2. SPOILERS: it WOULD have been cool if it had ended differently. She was PERFECT for him. That was mean Mr Frazier. She could have just been traumatized-now he'll NEVER get a gf. Someone has to love Reid best :(

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  3. That was wrong !!! I can't believe you guys let it end like that!!!! EJ Jahnes

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  4. Breen Frazier you're a dead man

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  5. Am i the only one who has a problem with that ending? Seriously? One shot and both gone?

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  6. I was so pissed. She was totally perfect for him

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  7. I love Criminal Minds but I hated that ending! My heart is broken for Reid!

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  8. That ending was so sad. How could the writers do that to Reid!? Like he hasn't been through enough in his life already. And plus he gets to join the crew in losing a loved one (except Blake but I bet that'll happen) I really liked Reid and Mauve being equals in smartness and being weird. If anything this will lead read to be more cut off from people than he already is. Also loved Hotch in this episode, he seemed more leader-y and not as much as a background character. I just felt that the team needs to address Reid after this. I mean cutting it off with Reid crying over his dead girlfriend was a bit messed up. Plus he got shot and said 'Bitch'! Oh Reid, oh pretty boy. So sad, and he wasn't shown in next weeks episode promo so maybe he just hangs back and grieves with Mauves parents. Anyway super great episode, didn't exactly like the ending just hopes it goes a good way with it. 9.5/10

    Also about the people who are saying this is MMG's way of leaving the show umm no. I highly doubt he'll leave after this episode plus his contract goes until next season so yep.

    -Rezkat

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  9. Very good episode!! I just wish it had ended differently. Gubler is a darling!

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  10. What next? They buy Reid a puppy so they can shoot that to? Monsters.

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  11. First gideon, then Hotch, then Rossi, and now reid. Seriously is jj the only one allowed to have her significant other live??? Now reid will be alone forever. Great episode, terrible ending.

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  12. SOOOOOO SAD!!!!! Wow that really got me crying. It was sad but such a great episode. What a performance by Matthew Gray Gubler.

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  13. The entire episode was amazing! The acting was great! Very emotional/heartbreaking ending! I feel soo bad for Reid, especially since he lost the one girl he's ever loved.. Unless somehow she isn't dead, but that isn't likely. But I thought this episode was one of the best of the season!

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  14. Note to anyone from the show who reads this:

    Check this post, and check the one with the promo further down, and then go and check your Facebook page. At the time I'm writing this the show ended on the East Coast 20 minutes ago and you already have probably close to 5,000 fans expressing how pissed they are.

    You might want to fix this.

    More importantly you might want to publicly promise that you're going to fix this because we already met the Unsub from next week in your promo and we already know what he does and why and between this and that a large number of us are probably too pissed to watch.

    Think damage control, and quickly. Please

    - Rebecca

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  15. I hope JJ isn't too attached to Will because he's the last significant other left standing.

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  16. Loved the episode but why oh why can't one Criminal Minds episode end on a slightly happy or even pleasant note? That wasn't a good ending, the episode was fantastic but the ending ruined it for me.

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  17. What I loved about this episode is that we actually had no gore, no showing of the torture. The UnSub was on a lot, yes, but so was our team. Them forcing Spencer to contribute was excellent, and a loving thing for Morgan to do. He KNEW his lil bro was in pain and he was helping him at every turn. I liked that the story was about the profile, and that everyone was EVERY BIT as invested in getting to Maeve as Reid was. My god this was an excellent episode. The one thing that bothered me was that SWAT didn't take out Dawn Summers when she started waving the gun around. Or that JJ didn't. JJ should've been the one to kill her.

    Maeve needs to live. If it's coma time or whatever, man. As long as she recovers. Reid needs her. He NEEDS her, show. Do not fucking kill her. Give her to him. Let him have this. Have her.

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  18. Maybe its a good thing Kevin and Penelope broke up, Kevin lives for now.

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  19. In a nutshell, #2 ep of the season. "The Fallen" still my fav, but I'm bigger Rossi than Reid fan. Personal perspective; don't shoot me. Breen always writes the craziest, intense eps and he didn't let us down in this one. Jesse Wren's direction was just amazing. The fade from Reid's face in Hotch's office in the opening to his face in the bullpen briefing the rest of the team was absolute genius. And I loved the TG/MGG scenes. We don't get those often, and with Breen's script, we got a treat! As a certified Hotch sister, TG looked stupendously handsome in casual. But back on point. Choosing Blake to do the cognitive interview and doing it over a chess board was Breen at his best. And I do love the pairing of JJ and Morgan, so it was great to see them together again. The ending, of course, was very sad. Even I root for Reid. And while it is tragic that Reid may never find true love or happiness, it is still a TV show. The ending made for gripping, compelling drama.

    Bottom line: 9.75/10

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  20. The ending was terrible. Reid deserved better as it took him eight seasons to get to this point. There's a line somewhere on how much writers can realistically put a character through before it gets ridiculous and the CM writers crossed it a while back. Having Reid watch the woman he loves die in front of him after not even getting to hold her hand or tell her that he loved her (and I recognize that the reason for the "I don't love you" was understood by Maeve but that's not going to stop Reid from feeling guilty). People do not just bounce back from things like this and unless the writers are prepared to make some drastic changes in Reid's demeanor to account for what he's just now gone through I think I'm done with this show. This isn't something he can get over in an episode and frankly, past experience shows that you guys are unlikely to take the time needed to make this realistic, or even make it happen. I hope I'm wrong.

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  21. Please let Maeve really be alive. Those two were amazing together. Plus, I'm not sure how Reid could possibly move on from this.

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  22. I totally agree with above post. Reid will be OK. I thought even though sadly the show ended as it should. The story line was great. This is not the dating game. CM is about unsubs. Love the writing and everything PLEASE PLEASE do not bring her back from the dead like some cheesy soap opera. Stick to what was done this week really a compelling program. Great job.

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  23. BEST Episode this far!! It was AMAZING, but very sad!!! I cried my eyes out!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE THE CAST, WRITERS AND THE WHOLE CREW!!!!!!!!!! <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

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  24. The ending left me in shock. The episode was fantastic, one of the best! I hope Maeve only has a flesh wound and is not dead. That would be awful for Reid. He was not able to tell her he loved her as he had planned on their first face-to-face meeting.

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  25. If there was any chance that Maeve was alive would Reid and the team just stand there gaping at her body and not help her? Maeve is dead. The arc played out to it's conclusion and it was brilliantly conceived and completed. I'm all for happy endings too but I'm actually more relieved that Reid has had the best season on the show since season 4. MGG's portrayal was fantastic last night and I think instead of complaining that Maeve died, oh poor Reid, we should be focusing on the terrific acting of both MGG and BethR who made the relationship so breathtaking and ultimately painful for everyone. Bravo to everyone involved! This is the Criminal Minds I love. Zugzwang and The Fallen are the two best episodes of the season. The emotions for both are just so heartbreaking.

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  26. I hated the ending. I am sick of Reid being the proverbial punching bag for this show. I mean it is bad enough that he is a geek and a social outcast most of his life. Then an addict with a mentally disturbed Mother who finds his one true love to watch her die? Not to mention being abandoned by Gideon, Prentiss, and his Father. I'm surprised he hasn't jumped off a building.

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  27. I agree, I love Criminal Minds, but for Reid to go through something like that, is the pits. I really wanted to see Reid to finally have a relationship and for him not to be able to save her is wrong. I cried by eyes out too.

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  28. I agree with anon - JJ's significant other should die. Will is a waste of space. I find it hard to believe that she'll be the exception to the rule. Even your FBI consultants have said marriages don't last forever in real life. You should have killed him as you originally planned even though Prentiss was leaving. The waterworks would have been off the charts!

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  29. I agree that this ending was tragic, I did not expect this at all. But I think the fact that all this has happened to reid anf he hasnt jumped, proves how strong he is. I hope they show intense mourning and internal battles because the emotion makes the show better in a way. ( though I would have preferred her to live, she shouldnt come back to life)

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  30. This is rediculous... I have many issues with this episode. First i want to start off by saying that I really love criminal minds, but this season hasnt really been living up to my expectations. I wish that the writers of this show would stick to the profiling of the serial killers, and not try to make more crazy and disturbing motives and signatures (I mean creating human puppets? come on...)

    Now for Zugzwang.
    I will so upset if Maeve is dead, I dont think Reid would be able to handle it. As much as I want her to live, I think it would be even worse if they just put her into a coma, then she just magically wakes up absolutely fine. And if they put her into a coma, then kill her...
    ALSO...If they just say she died in the shooting, I might lose it! I just want to point out how ridiculously unrealistic it would be, if the bullet that went through the stalker's head, was at the right angle to kill Maeve (not to mention the fact that it went in and out of the stalker's head, and still was enough to break through Maeve's skull and kill her... and the fact that the gun was in the seemigly-right-handed-stalker's left hand and was steady and strong enough to make the shot...CRAZY)

    I love this show and really hope that the writers can figure out a way to fix this..

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  31. Once you pull the trigger it doesn't matter how strong you are, the gun does all the work. A bullet shot at the temple of a small woman can easily go through and lodge itself in the skull of another fairly small woman being held next to her.

    For six years I was a first responder at our local volunteer fire dept. Sadly, I witnessed people die of head injuries with less trauma.

    I have issues with this episode, but how the two women were killed wasn't one of them.

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  32. here is a link to part of the chat Criminal Minds writer Breen Frazier did an hour ago, http://cmsetreport.tumblr.com/post/40793674092/i-know-people-are-probably-asking-this-a-lot-already

    Interesting read about the episode and why they did it that way.

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  33. Isn't it funny how most people hated the idea of Reid having a girlfriend and now everybody's pissed she's dead.

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  34. This episode was very powerful, very emotional and the actors all did a terrific job.
    However, I didn't like that story arc, and I'm glad it's over.
    Like someone said before, Criminal Minds is not a dating game. I'm ok with having a glimpse of the private, personnal life of the characters, but I'd rater have it in a clip, just to show (briefly) how they unwind from a difficult case.
    I'm glad this episode ended the way it did. I don't like happy endings. What happens after "they lived happily ever after"? I'd rather have dramatic endings so as to see how the characters cope with the situation (and I have to admit Reid is the perfect victim ^^). It might seem cruel, but that is what I expect from Criminal Minds anyway. ;-)

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  35. Great episode, very powerful and emotional. MGG was fabulous.
    Personally I'm not the slightest bit bothered that Maeve was killed. I'm happy it ended the way it did. I don't watch this show for lame romance storylines so I have never been interested in seeing relationships on this show, for any of the characters.
    I love a bit of Reid angst more than anything else in TV Land (that is, along with Sam Winchester angst) and this will, hopefully, give us some fabulously dramatic and emotional scenes, and some wonderful character exploration, from Reid in the near future as he deals with what has happened.

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  36. The ending was sick. Horrible. Reid deserves a shot at true love. Now he will NEVER be happy. I can't believe the writers right now. What have you done?

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  37. I also thought that Maeve's character was very badly developed. Have you seen the clothes she wore on what was supposed to be her first date with Reid?! Also, she didn't wear any make-up back then (which at the time I thought was just cruel because poor Beth Riesgraf looked pretty damn ugly without make-up in that particular lighting). In this episode however, she wore make-up and nicer clothes AND she had a super-model-like ex-fiancé! What the hell was that about? If you develop a character and decide to kill it off within three episodes, then at least let it be consistent. Argh, as if the ending wasn't awful enough...

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  38. Anonymous, I think you are asking the same question that Diane kept asking: "Why her and not me?" Reid made the comment to Blake in the God Complex, "It doesn't matter what she looks like. I mean, she's already the most beautiful girl in the world to me." These two men were drawn to Mauve because of her intelligence and personality. Diane, for all her beauty, couldn't measure up and she was unable to control her jealousy. The writers were contrasting the two women; one was beautiful but rejected and the other one was plain but desired.

    There was quite a bit of good acting in this episode and I especially thought Michelle Tractenberg did a great job portraying the psychotic girlfriend. I confess though, I had a hard time not looking at her and thinking ... "Hey, that's Buffy's little sister!"

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  39. Did really like the episode and I am not a Reid fan but was touched by the story. Poor Reid, having lost Maeve in such a way and without really having much time together. I had no problem with her dying, I was not invested enough in the character, unlike haley, to be upset at her dying. That said the actress playing Maeve was excellent and so was the one playing the unsub. The one that did hit it out of the park was MGG. He was excellent especially in the scene when they are at the round table and at some point Reid called the Unsub 'Bitch'! I like How Reid went from totally distracted, undertsandably, by what was happening to a point where he could not think clearly. Showed how Reid was being affected. Will be interesting to see how they will follow up on Reid guilt. Guilt of waiting to tell Maeve he loved her, guilt of telling the team not to shoot.

    Good work too from TG. Hotch was totally back at being the Unit Chief. He was the leader and too decision base on the case they had and not just because it involved a team member.

    Some had a problem with the team not giving Reid hugs at the end, I didn't. They were all in shocked with what happened and unlike 100 where it was all about how the team were witness in what happened, they all recalled the events by being interviewed by Strauss, here the story is told by Reid, Maeve and the unsub. It was fitting the last image we had was of reid when maeve died.

    Very good scene between reid and Blake. I like that she does not treat Reid as if he was a little brother. To Blake he is a colleagues and someone she respect and it shows in the way she talks to him.

    I'll give this episode a 9/10

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  40. HATED THE ENDING !!!!

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  41. I was enjoying the episode even though I noted a few plot holes along the way. One was that, despite the fear Reid had for Maeve's safety, I think he was a little TOO helpless about it. His line about being the dumbest in the room made me cringe. I worry they will use this as an excuse to dumb him down even more-- and they have already dumbed him down quite a bit. I think MGG delivered on what he was told to do, but I felt that Reid would have had more conviction-- perhaps more adrenaline and fought harder.
    As for the rest of the team, the only one who really seemed to have any slightly emotional investment was Hotch and he was all taking command and being the leader again. He knew he couldn't be soft and let sentiment get in the way of critical thinking. The rest of the team just seemed to be disconnected and not really have any empathy for Reid. There were no moments where any of them put a hand on his shoulder and told him they would do everything they could to help. I get that Garcia sometimes deals with stress by joking around, but her discussion with JJ about stalkers seemed out of place-- especially after what happened with Haley. In this instance I expected her to be all business. She and JJ just acted so casually. It just seemed like the rest of the team was not taking this seriously. There was a lack of urgency.
    Rossi was barely there. I think he only got 2 or 3 lines in the entire thing.
    Blake's response to Reid's blindfold story did not seem sincere. And WTF was that with the blindfold story? Reid told a very similar story to Morgan in Elephant's Memory and no blindfold was mentioned. Are we supposed to believe that Reid had two almost identical bad experiences in high school? I don't buy it. I don't buy that he would fall for the same sort of trap more than once.
    I couldn't help but wonder if they had to do multiple takes of Diane sticking her hand down Reid's shirt bc MGG seems ticklish. Just watch the Jalouse video to see what I mean.
    The lighting was too dark to really see the kiss well so I kept feeling like I was missing something.
    I know they very briefly mentioned that the police tried to find the stalker, but it seems like they dropped the ball. You'd think rejected applicants would be one of the first things they looked at to find potential enemies.
    I didn't buy the bit of the camera paging Diane's phone because Reid held up a note.
    Also, I don't buy that Reid didn't act sooner once the blindfold was off and he could see Diane. The first opportunity he had, he should have tried to get the gun away. He should have worn a wire or had some communication with the outside. And WTF was the point of having the SWAT there if they didn't go in?

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  42. (ran out of space)
    Another plot hole was that the restaurant reservations were in Reid's name, but Bobby said the private detective he hired found the restaurant because Maeve made the reservations. Maybe that was the "intentional" plot hole Breen mentioned? Maybe the season long unsub was the private detective?
    For that matter, why didn't the team ask for the name of the private detective so they could go find him and ask HIM about what he observed. Maybe he could have spotted the stalker.
    It just seemed like amateur hour and the way Maeve died was just disappointing. I don't buy that not a single one of the team or SWAT would have been too slow to shoot Diane before she could fire. They've shot people faster before. I wish it had played out differently in a more believable way.
    I wasn't angry or sad that Maeve died, but I was very disappointed. I expected it though.

    Breen said he didn't expect people to like Maeve. He seems pleased that people are mad because he feels he did his job. Well, I'm not mad, I just thought it was bad writing.

    Been there, done that. Not necessary to prove that the show is "dark" or whatever. Plus his reasoning for the lack of affection for Reid was to have it be different from 100. I'm all for having some variety, but not at the cost of characterization and believability. I wish that the team had been more supportive and that it didn't seem like everyone else (except Thomas) phoned it in and that MGG was carrying the episode.


    I also find it creepy that MGG has some real life stalkers. After this episode, one of those stalkers (who actually met him before and got pictures taken with him), sent threatening tweets to Ali Michael (saying she was going to bash her head in with a wine bottle or something like that). The real life stuff is creepier than the TV stuff.

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  43. Just to clarify: I didn't mean that someone like Maeve couldn't have a hunk for a boyfriend - it's not likely, but it happens. What bugged me was that in episode 10, Maeve was portrayed as this little mouse-like creature with no dress-sense who didn't wear any make-up and in this week's episode she was made up and wore normal clothes. It was like the criminal minds people realized they'd made a mistake in portraying Maeve like that and then turned her appearance around 180 degrees. I wouldn't have minded so much if the new-and-improved Maeve had stayed around for a little while longer, but to change a character right before killing it off just doesn't make sense to me.

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  44. Watched it through again. Great episode, well-conceived and acted all around. Don't have a problem with the ending at all, as long as the dramatic potential is played out in future episodes. (Although I did want to jump through the screen to give Reid a hug!) Well done, CM, and especially MGG! Looking forward to much more!

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  45. Question: Penelope and JJ are talking in Penelope's office and Penelope mentions 2 songs, what were they?

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  46. zannej wrote:

    "Also, I don't buy that Reid didn't act sooner once the blindfold was off and he could see Diane. The first opportunity he had, he should have tried to get the gun away. He should have worn a wire or had some communication with the outside. And WTF was the point of having the SWAT there if they didn't go in?"

    Elphie replied.....

    Oh I agree! I found it unbelievable how noncombative Reid was. He wasn't tied down and there were several times he could have grabbed Diane's arm ( the one holding the gun ) and subdued her ... especially during the kiss. The goal should have been to get them both out alive and not just trade one victim for another. Fight dirty if you have to.

    Another problem I had was that Reid was allowed to go into a hostage situation without some kind of backup. Even if he was going in alone, why wasn't he given a small gun to strap to his leg or an alarm button, like the kind they gave Emily when she went in alone into an unsub's home (can't remember the name of the episode). It seemed to me that everyone just milled around outside, until they heard gun shots. That's a dangerous and unprofessional way of letting your team know that the situation has gone south.

    Having said that ... I do want to add that MGG and TG did a good job acting in this episode, it seems of late that they have just been walking through their parts. Maybe this script offered them more of a challenge in their acting ability.

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  47. To DixieMomof3Girls,

    the songs that Garcia mentioned were:
    "Rosanna" by Toto and "In your eyes" by Peter Gabriel

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  48. I really like Criminal minds but this year has been a bit disappointing. And Reids girlfriend dieing was horrible. Poor ending. If he would have had a few episodes with her before something drastic happened would have been a better story. I also noticed there wasn't a funeral scene or one mention of her death! Just this is sad, what a loss. Wish she would have been in a coma.

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Respectful opinions, and constructive disagreement is welcomed, but insulting/foul-mouthed, malicious, or just plain disrespectful comments towards anyone are not, and will be removed.