Hope you've enjoyed today's episode, and remember that next week we'll have again a brand new one!
Wednesday, March 5, 2014
CRIMINAL MINDS Season 9 - 917. Persuasion - Comments Thread
Hope you've enjoyed today's episode, and remember that next week we'll have again a brand new one!
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To sum it up.... Poor writing, Poor directing, too much unsub, little to no profiling, Hotch and Blake could have phoned their parts in...
ReplyDeleteCouple good one liners from Reid & Rossi scattered throughout... but otherwise... I'd give it a 2 out of 10....
Reid fans should be happy though... At least he got to mention his Mom...
Good episode.Reid finally got some decent screen time. Could have done with less of the Mary Sue. Must she be prominent in just about every damn episode.Why how silly of me, of course she must be, after all she is EM"s golden girl.I guess I should be thankful that they actually let Reid be the one to figure out a couple of things instead of the Mary Sue.
ReplyDeleteAnyways so happy Reid really got to shine in this episode.But,I don't like that they keep messing with Reid's background and making him less of a tragic figure.It's one of the things I found so endearing about his character
Who the heck is the Mary Sue?
DeleteA “Mary Sue” is a character that is too good to be true or annoyingly perfect. JJ is sometimes affectionately referred to as “that effing Mary Sue.”
DeleteWhat can I say about this episode?
ReplyDeleteThe good things:
- Lots of Reid. Love that he did talk about his mom. he was awesome at the end when he did catch the unsub.
- I love snarky Rossi and he had the best line about shoes,
- The actor playing Marvin was good.
- some mystery about who was the unsub.
The bad:
- Too much time spend on unsub/undergroud people.
- little to no profiling. This was made even more obvious after last week GREAT episode written by Jim Clemente.
- the episode was very slow , do not mind those when we have lots of team doing what they do best; profiling.
- Can the writers just forget about JJ until next season? Honestly we had so much of her that I wish she would go away. Sad because I was happy she came back to the BAU.
- I guess Thomas Gibson was busy with post production, would explain that he had next to nothing to do with this episode just like with Mr. and Mrs Anderson.
Because of Reid who i really like in this episode i will give it a 6/10.
Two things to admit before I start. First off, I expected this to TG lite as well, given he just directed an episode and how little he was used in M/M Anderson. Secondly, I was late getting into watching the episode; yet turned it on to see the last half.
ReplyDeleteThat was big mistake on my part. I should have kept the TV off and watched the episode as a whole. So my review is sorta skewed with that.
I agree with some of the previous reviewers that the profiling in this one was next to none. And even if I hadn't watched the last half first, I'm pretty sure I would have figured out that Maurice was really calling the shots. The scene at the big party was an absolute waste of my viewing time and was not needed. So agree also that it was total bad directing.
Yet the episode did have it moments. For the Reid fans out there, they've got to be smiling largely and I must admit I enjoyed that as well (and I'm not big Reid fan at all). I don't know why, but I love the scenes when he and Rossi are paired together. I know I'm going to get a classic Rossi line and Sharon didn't disappoint on that. Also the "Hotch at the beach" line at the end was another great one.
Still, this episode did not really resonate with me. I've come to long accept that each season will have its "clinker" episodes. With my apologies to Sharon, this one fits that description.
Rockie's grade: C-
As a major Reid fan I have to say I was disappointed. There was no suspense, it was slow. the unsub was obvious from the start and worst of all were the bits about Reid's mom which didn't ring true at all. One of the things that define Reid is his relationship with his mother and how the angst of her illness affects him. This episode seemed determined to make this delicate and touching relationship into just another aspect of Messer's jolly, cheesy, Disney "family" vibe that has been ruining the show. I liked the fact that we actually saw Reid and he used his brain. I liked the attempt to bring in linguistic analysis. I did not like the fact that JJ was once again in almost every scene - for goodness sake send that darned woman on vacation for the rest of the season!! I could have done with more Blake and Rossi - I guess TG was wrapped up in post production of his episode. If this is our Reid centric episode it's better than nothing but oh what an opportunity missed! Underground storm tunnels that flood after storms? An organised group of thieves among the homeless underworld in Vegas? Reid back on home turf? The ingredients were all there but sorry, the cake fell flat. Oh how I wish for a decent Reid episode. At least he looked spectacular as ever!
ReplyDeleteThis episode had its good points and its bad points. I can't say I loved it, but I didn't hate it either. I had a feeling about who the real unsub was from the beginning and how he accomplished his crimes. But I can't say that the case was all that interesting to me. I like a different sort of case on the show, and this wasn't it.
ReplyDeleteI would have liked the Reid moments more if he wasn't paired with JJ when he had them. I am just sick enough of her to hate her paired with my favorite character. But something felt off about the story about his mom. Maybe it was the story itself, or everybody's reactions. But it didn't feel like the same sort of depth of emotion we've seen from them in the past. It just felt a bit more immature and shallow in some way.
But at least we can be thankful that he was the one who had those moments and not that Mary Sue.Because my biggest fear when they pair them together is them dumbing Reid down in order to make her look so smart.
DeleteI am a Reid Fan, and I am disappointed. For once, most of the time the writers want to make Reid look smart they make him spout facts. And that is not smart, it's just being able to memorize information.
ReplyDeleteAgain, JJ was all over the place, and I am truly fed up on how she has all those sort of dismissing gestures towards everyone, from Reid (her 'friend') to unknown detectives along the country. She is now able to ruin every scene she is in, even with Reid or Hotch. Besides being in the moments where all the team is there (case presentation, airplane chat, profile presentation) she was also at the first crime scene, then at the morgue, at the police station discussing the case, the two trips to hunt the unsub, she was also active in one of the catches, and she also was there to interview the first guy they caught. And of course, she is the one to who Reid talks now about his mom, not Blake anymore.
And finally, did she said Reid's mom is getting better? Of paranoid schizophrenia? REALLY?!?!
This comments thread is the same few people every week and it has become a JJ bashing thread. I am glad those trashing JJ are just a few of you who have nothing better to do then to wine because whoever it is you like isnt in the episode. enough! sheesh!! At least the hundreds of thousands of the rest of us like JJ and thats why she is a huge part of this show and will continue to be.
ReplyDeleteThe comments thread is open to everyone to air their views and opinions. Mine is that I hate what they have done to a character I once loved and petitioned to return to the show. I am quite happy to read other views and debate in an open forum. So come on JJ fans, jumo in and defend your corner! Perhaps though it is telling that most of the comments share the same viewpoint.
DeleteJJismyfave.,
DeleteMany people loved JJ S1-5, myself in cluded... However after she was brought back and the actress wanted to make her into more like herself she became 'too' perfect. While I understand an actress wanting to 'grow' the character it should have been done better. JJ should never have become the worlds best profiler, the world's best mother, the world's best spy... etc... She doesn't need to be in every scene, being better then even the men who 'started' the BAU to begin with. She's gone from a kind caring sympathetic person to someone who looks condescendingly on not only victims and unsubs but her own teammates. The Reid who went to her house every night for 10 weeks crying about "Prentiss's" death I doubt would find her endearing enough to do so now...
Now is that the fault of the actress.... NO absolutely not... the fault lies with the writers and producers who do not know how to expand a character while maintaining that characters most endearing qualities...
Calling people 'whiners' because we fought to bring AJ Cook back into the CM fold and then changing the character so much is an affront to the loyalty of the fans.
I think you should also realize that JJ is NOT a huge part of CM... CBS has said many times if TG and JM leave the show the show is dead. The studio heads realize that this show can not stand without the lead actors... the characters of JJ/Morgan/Garcia can not support the who on their own.
I'm glad you're a JJ fan... I'm glad you like what they've done to her... I however find her whole transformation implausible to the 100th degree...
Thank you it's good to discuss someone with a differing opinion on a topic... And I look forward to your continued discussion.
JJismyfave,
DeleteThis blog is open to all opinions, love or hate the episode, the characters as long as people remain polite and respectful of the cast, crew and other fans.
Instead of telling other to stop complaining about JJ, why not tell us why you like her?
You say hundreds of thousands likes JJ, care to back that affirmation with actual facts and numbers?
Why is she so great? and do it in relation to the episode, this comment thread is about the episode not about one character.
One thing is telling many do not like the new JJ, they just do not post here but on other places, even AJ Cook in a video interview mention that people would hate '200' if they know it was about JJ http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/A-J--Cook--Paget-Brewster--more-celebrate-Criminal-Minds-episode-200/9360264
It is utopic to think that everyone would love or hate a character but in the JJ case, many have not like the changes in JJ and remember over exposure is a sure way to make people hate a character.
I guess it is not nice to read about your favourite character being criticised, but there is one thing that is a fact. Despite the social media stirring when she was removed from the show back in 2010, the ratings of the show didn't drop. Not even the hate Seaver received changed that.
DeleteAnd you have to acknowledge that JJ is indeed in all bases now, in every single episode, including this one. Add that to the personality change she had, and you will have people that dislike her. If you love her, good for you, but you shouldn't tell other people what to do.
You are right about the ratingss, when AJ and Paget left and Rachel Nichols came on board ratings actually went up.
DeleteLive+same day viewing:
Season 6 average 3.5 demo and 13.61 million viewers
Season 7 average 3.4 demo and 12.63 million viewers
Season 8 average 2.9 demo and 11.41 million viewers
Live+ 7 days viewing:
season 6 data not available
Season 7 average 4.6 demo and 15.74 million viewers
Season 8 average 4.1 demo and 14.61 million viewers
source: http://www.seriesmonitor.com/criminalminds/index.html
So just looking at the ratings, at first glance the ratings went up after AJ and PB left and down after they came back. Is that the reason (they came back) why the ratings went down? Probably not. Rachel Nichols had some fans, especially the very in demand male viewers some might have left after she did but some of the reason for the ratings going down is also lost of focus on very popular characters, DVR usage being higher now then years ago could explain why the live+ same day viewing is down ( it is for EVERY shows).
may be the worst episode this season, especially after the excellent episode 9x16. It is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteVery slow, too many scenes in the water collector without the team. Almost nonexistent local police. No profiling. We guess right now is that the Doctor.
Too much JJ again. Not enough Hotch.
Reid's mother began to make excursions? Really?
this episode is to forget very quickly.
Not the worst one this season - surely that goes to the really dreadful "200" which is one of the worst of the whole series, if not THE worst!
DeleteThere is nothing worst than the 200th episode. Any single one of the previous 199 and the ones that came before that are better than that one. And that includes the worst featuring Seaver.
DeleteThe 200 was a special episode. we like it or not, but it was a deliberately different episode. The cast and crew took pleasure in doing something special. For episode 200 ... it makes sense. It was not bad ... just not in the Criminal Minds style.
DeleteThere is a "normal" episode and there is nothing ... full vacuum.
No, this is nowhere near being the worst episode. To be honest, most of the episodes last season and this season are totally forgettable for me, but I've got to agree with those who rank 200 as the worst episode just from the sheer lunacy of the script. The way this episode compares with 200 is the bit about Reid's mom just taking some different meds and all of a sudden being well enough to take a trip and that the sanitarium wouldn't have notified Reid of either of these things. I swear the Criminal Minds writers think viewers are morons.
DeleteNo surprises in the main story line, so my comments are about things in the periphery, and mostly the Reid back story.
ReplyDeleteThe Reid I fell in love with was brilliant, emotional, and socially awkward, and MGG portrayed all three in such an integrated way that I couldn't help but become fascinated by the character and his personality. The writing in recent years has blunted all aspects of that personality, and I think even MGG has trouble pulling it all together in his portrayal now.
The Reid we used to know would have been on top of every detail of his mother's care, down to the chemical composition and structure of her meds. He wouldn't have had the 'gee whiz, she's gone to the Grand Canyon without telling me' response. The Diana we saw before, who was so devoted to her son despite her illness, would have called him immediately with the good news of her lucidity. What an amazing moment that would have been, even if we had only seen Reid's end of the conversation! (Hint to show: You don't need Jane Lynch for that!)
I would have embraced such a scene with an emotional Reid's reaction. Or a troubled Reid wondering if he was being told the truth by the psychiatric facility. Or even a rueful Reid thinking about how out of touch with his mother he'd become as he mourned Maeve. Instead we got an unquestioning acceptance by someone who apparently forgot he was a genius, and his mother's guardian. And, of course, we also got the misinterpretation by JJ that it was all about Reid's feeling put out about his mother forgetting him.
I don't share the JJ-hate, but I do agree that the character has been grossly mis-written for several years. I would have expected the JJ of old to have entered the profiler role with a bit of a crisis of confidence, which would have been endearing. And now that we are stuck with the events of '200' (which I am still just trying to totally ignore), then I would have expected JJ to look a little more traumatized and vulnerable, rather than hardened and snarky. Those who understand these things know that the external shell always exposes some cracks, which is what makes the situation heartbreaking and dramatic. With JJ, we see only the shell. Having said that, I do think the situation is salvageable, and I do think we can get back to the more mature version of the old JJ. And I also think that her relationships (or the ones she used to have) with Reid and Garcia might be vehicles to bring her back.
Another observation: There was the mention of water-boarding as the team was discussing the case, with no particular discernible response from JJ. But it reminded me of the several times Reid, or others, made comments about drug dependence back in the day, and those split-second eye-shift reactions by MGG. So articulate. So worthy of re-winding and re-watching. That's what I wanted from JJ. And for someone to notice.
Finally, I recall seeing somewhere that the writer of this episode has a background in training---maybe a physician? So there is simply no excuse for getting the medicine all wrong. It's one thing (but also annoying) to stretch the imagination regarding the crimes and the unsubs, another entirely to use it to betray a solid canon story line with mistakes.
If that was our Reid-centric episode, I'm depressed.
Your comments are totally on the money. It drives me nuts that the writers don't realize there are those of us out here that fell in love with this show based on its original premise and that we have the intellect and insight to appreciate a show based on getting inside the minds of the perpetrators. Profiling is key. The characters were wonderful, interesting, complex. What Erica and her current writing staff have done to this show is a travesty.
DeleteIt WAS obvious to anyone who's watched the show for awhile who the doctor was going to be. It WAS ridiculous to assume that Reid hadn't kept abreast of his mother's condition, medications, etc. or that the sanitarium would not have notified him if she was going to be traveling. Wouldn't he even have to give consent as her responsible party? The rest of the story was okay. It was different. I didn't mind it, but when they sneak in that idiotic bit about Reid's mom, it just blows all credibility for the writing. They could have addressed this in so many other ways. First of all, I don't believe for one moment that they have EVER contacted Jane Lynch about appearing on CM. I'll bet she would have done it gladly. But if they don't want to use her or pay for her, they could easily have had Reid speaking to her on the phone where we only hear his side of the conversation, or even just arrive to the plane to go home and tell everyone he'd been to visit his mother. They didn't have to come up with this nonsense, which I suspect is just Erica's way of dealing with all the viewers' requests to see Reid's mom again.
They have Jim Clemente on staff and still write so many episodes that are implausible for the BAU, so I guess there's no point in suggesting they get someone with the necessary intelligence, or at least able to fact check, that can write dialogue worthy of Dr. Reid. This episode was better in terms of giving Reid a strong presence and playing to his strengths, but it still fell far short of the Reid we love from the early seasons, as you so eloquently pointed out, JustMyOpinion. I'm with you 100%.
I did feel that Blake got a bit more to do in this episode, which was refreshing. I'm with all those who are sick of JJ, and I used to love her. I'm tired of limited Hotch, especially strong, team leader Hotch, although I understand why for this episode since he probably was spending more time editing the episode he directed. I'm just tired of the characters no longer resembling their original selves. Does it really matter which team member delivers which line anymore? They've become interchangeable rather than unique personalities with unique strengths and attributes. It's just depressing. They really ought to let Jim Clemente write more episodes. Last week's episode was the best episode in over a year in terms of suspense, division of screen time for each member of the team and staying true to their characters.
So true... All of it...
DeleteAbsolutely spot on. So very true.
DeleteJust my Opinion....
ReplyDeleteOMG I had completely forgot Rossi's comment about the waterboarding.. and you are dead on... I would have expected 'some' sort of reaction from JJ... or at least a comment from Rossi when he brought that up, a look, something... but no, it was glossed over.... JJ's amazing recovery from her experience is another thing that has put me off to JJ as a whole.
Also, your observations regarding present day Reid and previous Reid is spot on.. and really I'm with you.... if this is the 'Reid" centric episode it was far short of what it should have been...
The episode? Just meeh if I'm really honest..the season had such a good start but it went down rather quickly in my opinion. There were some great episodes in between (Strange Fruit, Gabby) but I couldn't hold my hopes of getting a better season after the last one up until now..
ReplyDeleteBut what I actually wanted to say:
I've been following the discussion here for the past few weeks (re: JJ) and I'm kinda torn. JJ was and yes, still is my favorite character of the show but I agree with those of you who said that the writers/producers just keep messing her up. And that is not fair to the character. I mean if I were a writer/producer of the show and IF I read some of these comments (I have no idea if they really do, who knows..), I'd feel taken aback. If viewers/fans feel so upset/angry/mad/... because they just see a character on screen or hear them talk then something is definately going wrong. And the writers/producers should realize that. But to me it seems like they don't and I feel kinda sad about that. In the beginning of JJ's return I was really excited about her change because that's the way of life, people change and move on. And before this season I got really excited to learn more about her character and what has actually made her change. But it has gotten to a point which just makes me cringe. It's just not realistic. It goes on and on and that makes me a little worried about the upcoming episodes/season(s?).
I wanted to say something else as well but I've lost my train of thought..dammit :/ lol..
It will come back to you. Give it time, and then post it!
DeleteThe episode wasn't as bad as a few of the others. There was too much unsub who any long time CM viewer could have picked out from the beginning. Just as any long time CM viewer would know that Diana would NOT have gone on a trip such as that without telling her son. Reid, going through all that angst, trying to reach Diana was for show and fell flat. It made no sense because the writers and show runner should have known that as well. I thought the whole thing about Diana was so far off the mark with her relationship with Spencer. It was sad to see this opportunity to bring Diana back into the show wasted with inconsistences and lack of continuity.
ReplyDeleteI don't care that JJ was there with Reid, talking to him about his mother. Fans of JJ have been writing for some time now that they wanted more interaction between Reid and JJ because, after all, he is Henry's godfather. I, for one, wanted to see more JJ/Reid because of that. It makes more sense than JJ and Morgan ever did. And what JJ said went along with everything that Reid was telling her. I didn't see it as her giving him parental advise. And so what, she is a mother and can speak from a mother’s heart. Doesn’t mean she considers herself an expert. I enjoyed their exchange and would much rather see JJ with Reid any day. Anyone but Morgan for that matter.
I honestly do understand how upset fans are because of the over use of JJ. Because I felt the same way about Prentiss. Only it went on and on for seasons 3-7 with Prentiss. I am a big JJ fan. The reason I don’t step up to defend her is because I don’t have to. She doesn’t need defending. So what, JJ is good at a lot of things. So are Hotch, Rossi, Reid and Morgan. It isn’t any different than when Prentiss came on board with no profiling experience, getting her job to be a mole but she quickly became the best of the best. The Mary Sue of seasons 3-7. Prentiss was given preference over Reid in screen time. 200 only reinforced that. I think that the only numbers that are needed to back up a claim that many fans are enjoying this season of JJ, is in the ratings. Fans are still tuning in.
The trouble is that many, many fans like myself are tuning in more from hope than expectation. Because every now and then we do get an excellent episode with proper teamwork and profiling. I think it is important to make our views known because although the figures are pretty good still, we often don't like the way the writing or the characters are going but we are so attached to the show that we HAVE to watch in case it is a rare stand-out episode.
DeleteYou are right about Prentiss. By season six she was a super spy, but that is the hand of the producers and new writers that were ascending, while the former ones were fading away for different reasons. I think one of the problems Messer and her team have is the tendency to produce super heroes from women, instead of dealing with them as real people with faults and skills. Therefore, it is more difficult to find them engaging since one can not possible relate to them anymore. The same happened with Seaver: she was a cadet, and suddenly she was presenting profiles and she was running with Morgan, chasing unsubs, while Reid was left at the police station, just in case some unsub decided to show up there. All the male characters have suffered different personality changes that make them look less smart and less powerful than the girl team, except maybe Morgan, who is still the one kicking doors, which I also find insulting, since he was someone with brains and a speciality back in the old days. Also, with now half of the writers being women plus the show runner, none has spared a romantic interest, and family / sweet moments are presented in every single episode. In the meantime, the guys of the team keep looking more and more standard and less and less specially skilled, and that includes even Morgan.
DeleteMs Fabiana,
DeleteYou've hit the nail on the head... Ms. Messer and her female writers have shown their propensity to being 'sexist' against the men on the show. AND that is the downfall of CM as a top show in my eyes....
I said this in a conversation I had already....
If I wanted Real Housewives of the BAU I'd write it myself...... I want the CM I fell in love with...not this Alias/The Unit/Fringe wannabe show that is emerging from Ms. Messer's leadership...
There are certainly ways to make the woman strong and decisive and independent without turning them into 'superhero' like characters.
Thanks for your insightful post!
I don't think one can look at the ratings and say that people are loving "the season of JJ." By that token, people had no issue with JJ and Emily's departure, and they loved Ashley, because the ratings stayed strong throughout season six. All those people threatening to stop watching Criminal Minds either lied, or there weren't so many people who were willing to walk away from the show because of it. I personally hated the character of Ashley Seaver (and said so every opportunity I had), and didn't like the fact that AJ and Paget were fired. But I watched anyway. Just like I continue to watch now that I have reached the saturation point with JJ and want her to disappear from the screen for the rest of the season.
ReplyDeleteLike I mentioned before, the case was utterly boring for me, but I don't like these type of cases anyway. Which disappoints me, because I often like Sharon's writing, and was looking forward to this episode. But it fell so flat. And the interplay about Reid's mom just fell so flat as well. And that alone shows how immature the writing has gotten, and how off base, because that sort of thing just doesn't happen (schizophrenia improving to such a degree in someone with a long term illness who was bad enough to be involuntarily committed). Again sacrifice any sense of realism for a feel good cutesy scene, and completely upend the emotionally complicated relationship that is Diana and Reid. It has gotten extremely irritating and detracts from the seriousness and the quality of the show. They practically made it sound like Diana was at summer camp and not institutionalized with a progressively debilitating illness. Yeah, they may have wanted to shut the door on Diana Reid, because either Jane is unwilling to do the show anymore, or the show is unwilling to ask her or write more scenes, but they did it in such a way that felt so false. Reid being more of a parent/caregiver to his mother from such a young age is part of who he is and the foundation for his personality. And it's not like Diana is just some grown up teenager spreading her wings at college, which is sort of the impression I got from the final scene. So JJ's lines just seem too flippant, and even though JJ's come across as flippant and snotty in recent years, and I can see her saying something like that, that is more of a function of the writer's choices for those scenes.
They saved the best for the last with Garcia’s remark about the Grand Canyon model looking like a pile of sh---ale and the “Hotch at the beach” comment. References to Reid’s mother were annoying since Jane Lynch wasn’t in the episode. I’m always at full attention when Reid speaks, hoping to retain some bit of information. In so many episodes, the team would be stalemated without Reid’s input. There’s never enough Aaron/TG, what else is new. As far as JJ goes, there is something indefinable that bothers me. It could be as shallow as hair, makeup and wardrobe. I agree with the viewers who are suffering from JJ fatigue. Decades ago, it wasn’t enough to be a wife, mother and homemaker, and more women entered high profile positions, all good. Now we can do what we choose, inside or outside the home, with or without families. I get the feeling on CM that it wasn’t enough for JJ to be the communications liaison, a position she excelled at, with her ability to elicit trust, her thoughtfulness, her intuition. Now, as a profiler, she is logical and analytical, with more guidelines, form and sense, and again, nothing wrong there. But just as homemakers were and are good enough, JJ was good enough as the liaison. The writers could have created countless avenues for JJ as the communications expert.
ReplyDeleteI just have loved this show from day one. I am passionate about each and every character. For me the thing that set this show apart from others are the characters. All so likeble. I just hate the constant bashing week after week. that being said you are all entitled to bash. I like the old and new JJ. I ( and i shutter to say this) loved JJ in season 7-9. The more the better! I do see your point though if you don't like her, she has been given a lot more then in the past seasons.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they know what to do with the character because the reason she was fired in the first place was because CBS executives thought the character was boring. Maybe writer's are trying too hard to do too much with her. Who knows.
I agree when I was watching last nights episode, I too thought their would be a reaction from JJ after they mentioned water boarding. I as a JJ fan wanted her to freeze or show some reaction, but nothing. That is the writers fault.
Anyway you win and I lose. I will stick to the sites that are JJ friendly because that's what I enjoy. That being said I will miss rockhotch31's reviews of each episode. I too am a huge TG fan. JJ and Hotch have always been my favs. I love them together (not romantically) apart and I love when they have scenes together and they have a moment. I have always felt they have a special connection. Anyway I will miss your reviews because I almost always agree with them. :)
Happy Trails CMRT
*blushes* Thank you for your kind words.
DeletePlease stop in and visit every now and then.
And best wishes to you.
JJmyfave,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry you associate people with differing opinions here as making CMRT not a place you want to post. However, if you are looking for everyone to agree and hold the same opinions then maybe a board or blog of that nature will be a better fit for you.
I find that I quite enjoy the discussion and debate that goes on here on CMRT. People are respectful and often jovial even with the myriad of differing opinions.
There is no winning or losing here.... We all are entitled to our opinions and are free to voice them.
I'm glad you can agree that it is the writers fault for the way JJ is and has been portrayed in recent years. Of course if she is indeed your favorite character your opinion will differ from the opinions of Reid fans, Morgan fans, Rossi fans etc..
.
I myself sympathize with the Reid fans who have found their favorite character virtually lobotomized because this group of writers on the whole doesn't seem to be able to write his character as it was designed in the beginning. I know many Hotch fans who feel the same way, as well as many Garcia fans.
Anyway where ever you do wind up posting I hope you have fun and enjoy the show, which I too have watched from day 1 episode 1.
Happy Trails to you too as you put it.
New JJ is like Ashley Seaver and Elle Greenaway. Watch old episodes and you'll see what i mean hopefully
ReplyDeleteI actually called JJ the Ashley Seaver of interrogating in my review of "200", so I know what you mean. But I really liked Elle, even though I liked Emily more. And I can honestly say that I liked JJ up until this season. For some reason, I hit my saturation point with JJ at the start of this season, and now I find myself reacting to her presence in episodes like I reacted to Ashley (and that is not a good thing).
DeleteElle worked hard and studied to be there, Ashley got the job without being out of the academy, in which, as any other woman in the show, she was already excelling. For me, al least, that is a huge difference. The worst part of JJ becoming a profiler and no longer being in charge of her previous duties is that we landed with the implausible notion that Garcia presents the cases. That opens more questions: why? Which are her qualifications? How does she produce the presentations if she can even look at the pictures and acts horrified while informing the team the features of the case? Who choose the cases now? Why the press is no longer interested in crimes? It is because JJ is no longer the liaison? The press is well known to mess up with crime investigations, so... Where are the journalists? Why Garcia is always in charge of the clicker? Do you remember when Dr Reid tried to present a case, and he failed, because, you know, Messer likes to show how stupid he can be since he can't handle a remote that only has one click on it.... Nobody else have ever even tried to present a case. Since JJ left, Garcia clicking is a must be in this show...
DeleteThat is where the writers/producers inadvertently shot themselves in the foot with how they handled JJ's departure. I mean, they made SUCH a big deal about how good JJ was at her job when she was on maternity leave, and they made it plainly clear that Jordan Todd didn't have what it took for that job, even though she was an experienced agent and presumably very competent in counter-terrorism. Now, I get that Jordan was always supposed to be a temporary replacement for JJ, but they deliberately wrote the story the way they did to show how competent and necessary JJ was for the team.
DeleteBut then they have Penelope do JJ's job when she left. Sure, you saw her struggling a bit at first. But it's not even the press part that is the most unrealistic. It's the fact that if Penelope does JJ's job, she is now the point of contact for local law enforcement and she is the one picking the cases (or at least we can presume since she assumed the rest of JJ's duties). But Penelope is not even a full fledged FBI agent. She is not a federal law enforcement officer, has no actual law enforcement training, and yet she is the one who is the liaison, and she is the one picking the cases? That does not seem like an appropriate job for a technical analyst. You should want a law enforcement officer picking cases. And it makes the idea that Penelope is still so squeamish about the messier cases to be even more implausible.
In reality, if this was the real FBI (and yes, I know it is not), JJ's position would have been replaced by an actual FBI agent long ago. Sure, Hotch could say that he doesn't want to replace her, but since the FBI is a large government bureaucracy, he doesn't really have that power to say that. But that is more of a minor quibble in what ended up being a complete devaluing of JJ's job (even if I'm sure the writers/producers didn't intend for that to happen). If Penelope can do it, presumably it can't be that hard. Or maybe Penelope is just that much more skilled than Jordan Todd (yeah right).
New JJ, Ashley Seaver and Elle Greenaway are different incarnations of the same characters. 3 versions of one person played by 3 different actresses. Yes, there are differences and you can compare and contrast them. The similarities between them are that they are all over confident without both legs to stand on, act condescending towards Reid at times and victims, take over the case from Hotch, have a superwoman complex, try to act more badass by rushing in to stupidly kick ass just for the sake of action hero status, and they all have an inappropriately sarcastic streak that seems aimed at the victims and witnesses poor choices. They shouldn't be judgemental. JJ S1-5 was awesome.
ReplyDeleteEither way. JJ needs to be toned down, Garcia shouldn't be presenting cases and she's becoming increasingly annoying and the show needs a hell of a lot more Hotch. Brooding Hotch too. More Morgan, Rossi and Reid as well. More Blake too for that matter and more writning and character consistency. But More Hotch!
Elle wasn't that condescending with Reid. She acted like a female Morgan, yes, as new JJ and Seaver, but as Morgan, when it went too far she would stop. Both new JJ and Seaver would roll eyes and act condescending with Reid, and the worst part is that none of the other team members reacted at all to stop the bullying.
DeleteThe main fault of this team of writers is that they dumb the male characters in order to make the female ones more powerful and more "interesting", of course, according to their standards...
From what I understand Hotch is the one who actually picks the cases, not Garcia. She just presents the cases.But count me among those hating the fact that she does and wishing that JJ had gone back to presenting them.
ReplyDeleteNow I see a couple of possible reasons for this. One being that they wanted to guarantee Garcia a certain amount of screen time, because after all she is a very important character unlike those nobodies Hotch and Reid. The other one being that AJ Cook wanted as little to do as possible with things that were associated with the previous incarnation of the JJ character.
And it may be the case that Hotch picks the cases on the show, but he doesn't have time to do that. As we saw from the first five seasons, JJ worked insane hours (and didn't even get group vacation time), presumably going through the mountain of cases to evaluate them all. Hotch simply doesn't have time to do that and be an effective leader. So in either case (Hotch doing it, or Penelope doing it), it's still doesn't fit. I mean, I can only guess they didn't have JJ picking the cases and presenting them anymore, because she is now a profiler and therefore has more important things to do or it's simply not her duty title anymore. But it really doesn't make sense if you sit back and think about it.
DeleteA lot of things don't make sense nowadays if you really think about it. And that is one big point that makes me cringe even more as longer as this season goes on. There are so many holes that keep coming up but nobody of the writing/production staff seems to care about that (at least that's my impression). The biggest part of all is the continuously screwing up of all the characters. Like I said before, my favorite character still is JJ but it makes me kinda sad to see what they have done/do/keep doing to her. I could go on and on but well..what difference will it make..
DeleteLets say Hotch picks up the cases, and Garcia creates the presentation by uploading the files on the screen and on the ipads. Why on earth does she has to be there to talk at the same level than Hotch about the cases? It didn't make sense, it doesn't make sense, and it will never make sense at all. Clicking a remote to display pictures and articles on a screen is not that difficult, and they have them in their ipads anyway... It is true that there are a lot of things that do not make sense at all, and even though I guess some readers of this forum may think we are complaining for every little detail, I still think these are not just details at all.
DeleteAnd since when is Garcia not being an agent ever stopped them before.I dare say a lot of fans are under the impression she is an agent.I wouldn't be at all surprised if the season 9 finale was a repeat of the season 7 finale where Garcia is out in the field wearing kevlar and Reid is back at the BAU with Kevin.They had actually wanted Garcia to use a gun at onetime, but thankfully the actress herself exercised some common sense and refused to go along with that idea.
ReplyDeleteI also remember there was this promo picture for the season 7 finale.It said something along the line about one of these profilers.And it was a picture of Garcia in Kevlar.I was so pissed I had to shut my computer off and just walk away until I had calmed down enough.
I find it rather ironic that JJ use to get unfairly dumped on when she'd go out on the field because so many people seemed to be unaware that she was an FBI agent.But then you have Garcia who is not an FBI agent but a lot of people believe her to be one.So it's perfectly ok with them when the show sticks Garcia in Kevlar and puts her out on the field. Honestly it's enough to make one want to tear their hair out.
Debra, you are totally, absolutely, irrevocably right. And the worst part is that Hit and Run was not the one and only time she was in the field wearing the Kevlar... And to add insult to injury, on that episode the one 'profiler/member of the team' in danger was JJ's husband, who is not only Not a profiler, but also not a part of the team...
DeleteA CLASSIC CRIMINAL MINDS EPISODE !! i was missing a reis in prior episodes .. so the episode rocked for me !!! thumbs up 10/10
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy the comments about who’s an agent, who shouldn’t be in Kevlar, who isn’t qualified, who’s picking the cases, etc., even though I’m not totally invested in those issues. I love seeing what things get to what people. For me, I become completely irrational and fanatical if anyone says that Haley actually loved Aaron or if Beth is the right woman for Aaron. And I bow down in thanks to Scandal for keeping Bellamy Young busy. I watched reruns of Elephant’s Memory and Pleasure Is My Business, and compared to this season, it’s like watching two different series. But CM is going into its 10th season – and in TV land, that’s a lot of years. Nothing stays the same. Even though CMRT is a very small segment of viewers, there appears to be a consensus on some key issues. So I wonder at times when the writers hit a home run, as with Gabby, why they can’t continue giving the fans what they like. But then again, if they did that, maybe we’d be saying the show is a one-trick pony.
ReplyDeleteI think part of the problem is the pre schedule. The next episode (rabid) was being filmed when 200 was aired. Even though some fans may have been not that happy about the general direction of the show along the last seasons, it was just after that particular episode when people really started complaining, since part of the fandom felt hurt when such a big milestone was used to create a story for JJ that took most of the episode, and that it looked as an entirely different show. So all the complains about whatever bother us came after they already filmed and edited up to Persuasion, at least, and they were filming rabid right then. So, there was no way they could do anything to adjust. I am no saying they will. Only time will tell, but one can only hope...
DeleteHey, Hotch Fan,
DeleteDon't even get me started on Beth. :) I'm a Hotch lover, too. You're so right about the earlier seasons, and Pleasure is My Business is one of my favorite episodes. Hotch is a strong leader, yet infinitely compassionate in that one. I agree that Gabby is the most like CM of old of any episodes we've gotten in quite some time. I wonder all the time why Jim Clemente isn't more of a voice of reason with the other writers when they write nonsense like 200. I wonder if he feels like he's not really a Hollywood guy and just doesn't want to rock the boat, but he is supposed to be there as a consultant. I think the current staff just doesn't care. They're going to write what they want whether it makes sense or not. The show was not a one trick pony for 5 seasons. Crimes are being committed every day. Surely they can come up with interesting cases and still keep true to the characters as they were originally established. I think it was during the hiatus between seasons 6 & 7 when Erica said that all the new writers were going to spend time viewing the early seasons so they'd be familiar with the characters and stories. I'm sure that never happened. More's the pity.
Well, the only solution is for us to fly out there and the writers can pitch us their outlines a couple of months in advance. But back to reality, it will be interesting to see what direction the writers and producers take in future episodes. There is a lot of good and detailed feedback on this site.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much the production actually cares about feedback. The figures remain good with CM heading up Wednesdays. I see Twitter is awash with writers and producers backslapping each other over the great results. I can't see them ever deviating from the path Erica Messer is leading them down. I still try to give feedback both in forums and on the CBS feedback site but I doubt it matters. And of course there are a lot of viewers - mostly it seems the teens and pre-teens - who really like these improbable storylines with all the fluff and romance added in.
ReplyDeleteAs I’ve said before, I know nothing, but wouldn’t be surprised if Season 10 is the last. It’s an excellent and respectable number for a TV series. If that’s the case, maybe we should expect more of the same. It’s true that the formula was great for the first five seasons, but an additional five seasons – who knows, writer’s fatigue (get new ones), or as noted, younger viewing audience, or “my way or the highway.” Who knows. jonishackley re Beth: I can’t even watch reruns where she appears. She. Makes. Me. Crazy.
ReplyDeletejonishackley and Hotch Fan - re Beth. Me too! I cannot watch any episode with her in and struggle when she is even mentioned in passing! My hackles just go up as she is so very wrong for Hotch. I cannot even think about Route 66 without hyperventilating as it was so awful!
DeleteSo sorry moderators for veering so far off course from the episode but strong feelings have been stirred up!
I apologize, too, Moderators, for bringing this up and could (but won't) list why she is so wrong. The JJ Fan Club is now doing the happy dance! Finally, another target!
ReplyDeleteAs long as people stay polite to cast, crew and other fans, people can voice their opinions. Of course it would be better if people stayed on topic which is about the latest episode :)
ReplyDeleteCMRT admin