By Matt Webb Mitovich
This Wednesday at 9/8c, CBS’ Criminal Minds uncorks a memorable 150th episode – no easy feat, given the vast array of sorid subject matter already served up in the years gone by. TVLine invited showrunner Erica Messer to reveal how she found a new twist to mark the landmark occasion, weigh in on some fans’ most fervent wish and share a taste of the Season 7 finale.
TVLINE | Our readers have been very much looking forward to Episode 150. What opportunity did you see here, with this landmark outing?
It’s interesting because with our 100th episode, Hotch went head-to-head with the Reaper, and we didn’t have a story like that for the 150th. One, because you’re not really going to get any better than Hotch versus his nemesis, and two, because the Prentiss version of that happened last season and culminated in the premiere this year. So by the time we get to the 150th we didn’t want to manufacture something, so we looked at what we do every week, which is use our wits to save a victim who’s been in captivity since at least the end of Act 1. We took that and put it on its head and said, “What if this time around a victim actually has an unsub [in captivity], and the victory will be if the team can get her to not kill somebody?” And whether or not that happens remains to be seen.
More at TvLine
What is Erica Messer trying to do here ? Drive a good part of her fans away with Hotch/Prentiss subtext ?
ReplyDeleteBecause even if a lot of fans ship Hotch/Prentiss, a lot of them don't want to see it happen and don't want the show to hint at it either, not now and not ever !
I don't even want to watch 7x12 now....
To be honest, if this happens, they should cancel the show. It is obvious that they will have ran out of storylines & the show has jumped the shark and it should finish. The only reason shows go down this route is because they are getting desperate. And it's fine to go down this route but seeing as half the fanbase don't like the ship, you will lose a lot of viewers and they will go and watch something else instead. So, if they decide to do this, cancel the show & go out on a high, instead of letting it die a painful death.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing is, in government, you aren't allowed to work with someone you are dating, so if this happens, I assume that either PB or TG will have to go from the team & become recoring role. It would cause more problem for the team because if anything happened because Hotch's judgement is influenced by his feelings, the team won't be able to trust him anymore to make a judgement not influenced by his feelings. So, if you stick to the rules, one of them is going.
But I seriously think that if Erica wants to go down this road, CBS should cancel it because it is clear that the show has jumped the shark.
She's simply appeasing the shippers. That's not to say it will never happen because the show is going to go where ever it is going to go, but geez we go from Beth hating and swearing to write the show off forever to H/P hating and swearing to write the show off forever. As a Hotch fan, I kind of love all of the attention he's been getting lately, but honestly, none of the romance in his life whether it be with Beth, Suzie, Abbigail or Emily Prentiss is ever going to be the main focus of an episode, much less the show so all the upset it has caused seems so pointless.
ReplyDeleteI don't really care to ever see H/P hook up either. I also got squeemish over the idea that Morgan and Garcia went too far in 7.13, but neither scenario is enough to make not want to watch. It's too trivial IMO to get worked up about. Now if they were going to kill Hotch off or limit him to 3 episodes a year, I'd probably find that worthy of a spike in the blood pressure. ; )
I'm looking forward to 7.12. They're supposed to have a nice, emotional scene together where they both kind of reveal how much it sucks to be them some days. I think it sounds nice, plus the unsub of the week sounds pretty interesting too.
I do not understand who dislike both "possible" Hotch and Prentiss relationship. Definitely not the Beth woman profile you need, very bold and almost stalker, I do not. The writers have understood that history can be turned away, without having to modify the main thing is the case in every week, has to realize the subtext that has been observed since Emily appeared in the second season. I remember that in X-Files, Mulder and Scully had chemistry for nine long years and only had two scenes of love and that's what we all loved the fans.
ReplyDeleteNo Erica! Forget about ready or not ready! There's a little thing that bosses aren't supposed to date their subordinates. And before someone does the song and dance about how some bosses do date their subordinates, there do exist actual bosses and subordinates who would NOT date each other because they do feel there are ethical reasons not to go there. So arguing that it makes sense because every other Dick and Jane does (which isn't true anyway) is irrelevant because they aren't Hotch and Prentiss. Or Hotch and anyone. Unless Erica sees these characters as VERY different than me (and I always thought she had a good understanding of them) Hotch is not someone who feels it's right to date someone he's in authority over. I also don't see Prentiss to be someone who would date her boss.
ReplyDeleteAnd what happened to all the constant talk from the writers, including Erica, that romance was NOT going to happen? I was lulled into a nice sense of security that she got it. That men and women can be friends and that you don't have to be in love with someone to care about them or want to support or help them.
Well, I liked Beth before, but now I want a big wedding and an iron clad, until the show ends contract for Bellamy Young. And while we're at it, lets have one of those for Josh Stewart and Nicholas Brendon. Also stipulated in the contract that the characters stay in relationships with the team members with no triangles or infidelity. And bring in outside romances for Morgan, Reid, and Prentiss. I'm being snarky and sarcastic here, but that might be the only way to guard against a team pairing. (They may only be talking about Hotch and Prentiss now, but the fact that they opened the door that much says nothing is safe)
And I will always find team pairings to be annoying, but at least if they had been upfront about the possibility I wouldn't feel blindsided. Or did they just up and change their minds? It's not like the question hasn't been asked 50 gazillion times, and not that long ago. So if they did change their minds, it was fastest change in the west.
Good to know. Unless they're talking about episodes that have already been written, filmed, and edited, I won't trust what they say. And even with those episodes, I'll take it with a grain of salt. As of now, I'm immune to being shocked. I'm going to go under the assumption that anything and everything is a possibility.
To Vivi :
ReplyDeleteJust one thing, why are people comparing Hotch and Prentiss to Mulder and Scully ? Because, seriously, they are nothing alike and their interactions are nothing alike. Mulder and Scully teased each other since day one, made sexual innuendos since the beginning. Scully was constantly jealous when Mulder's exes showed up, or when Mulder showed interest in another woman. Mulder got jealous too when Scully showed interest in another man later. They hugged each other, they even kissed each other in season six and seven (sort of since it was and wasn't Scully in season six) - and almost did so more than once before.
Mulder admitted to Scully that he loved her during season six....and so on.
And don't tell me that it's just more subtle with Hotch/Prentiss, it's just NOT there.
To sf81387 : the difference is that Prentiss is a main character. Any kind of romantic subtext between Hotch and Prentiss will always be much more in your face, much more intrusive and so much more damaging to the show than Hotch/Beth could ever be.
Right now, I just hope Hotch/Beth lasts.
The most depressing part of the article is this :
I know a lot of people out there want those two together, and it’s not to say it will never happen, because in many ways trusting one another and being there for each other in the field when it counts speaks volumes about relationships. But for right now, they’re not ready for each other.
So, does that mean that Hotch can only trust Prentiss ? That only Prentiss is here for him ? That only Prentiss is here on the field for him ?
So, what about the rest of the team, what about Rossi, Reid, JJ,...didn't they do the same thing ? Didn't they prove time and time again that they have Hotch's back when it counts, that they would put themselves on the line for him ? Didn't they prove time and time again that Hotch can trust them ?
The only thing that could sheer me up right now would be a news about Reid getting another centric episode and more attention before the end of the season. But I'm not delusional enough to think it'll really happen.
Erica please no Hotch/Prentiss!!
ReplyDeleteThomas Gibson said clearly in an interview that Hotch would never hook up with a subordinate and he knows Hotch best. This will really mess up the team dynamic and also upset the fantasies of many other shippers who ship Hotch or prentiss with other characters. This show has always promised that there would be no office romance. Please stick to that and let everyone have their fun.
My hope is that erica is just saying this as she knows the HP shippers are upset at Beth... Who by the way seems like a wonderful character and Thomas wants her to stick around
Please erica... No Hotch/Prentiss!!!
I know a lot of people out there want those two together, and it’s not to say it will never happen, because in many ways trusting one another and being there for each other in the field when it counts speaks volumes about relationships. But for right now, they’re not ready for each other.
ReplyDeleteSo, does that mean that Hotch can only trust Prentiss ? That only Prentiss is here for him ? That only Prentiss is here on the field for him ?
So, what about the rest of the team, what about Rossi, Reid, JJ,...didn't they do the same thing ? Didn't they prove time and time again that they have Hotch's back when it counts, that they would put themselves on the line for him ? Didn't they prove time and time again that Hotch can trust them ?
No, it doesn't say anywhere that Hotch ONLY trusts Prentiss, only that he trusts her. It doesn't say that he trusts her any more than he trusts any of the others, it only says the he trusts her and that kind of trust is a building block in a relationship. You could say the same thing about his relationship with JJ or any one of the guys. I personally think the one person Hotch trust with his life more than any other though is Morgan, hands down. Maybe they'll stop denying their feelings for one another and hook up by series end. ; )
To Rene: I respect your opinions but do not share.
ReplyDeletesf81387, but I have to wonder why did she feel the need to just appease the shippers now? Like I said, people never stop asking questions about it. I asked when she answered questions on Twitter at the start, and she said she prefers "hugs, not kissing" which I took as a no. And, it's been asked at the writers chats and at Entertainment Weekly and other TVLine articles. And, they never felt the need to appease the shippers before. Despite plenty of opportunities. So, I wonder what changed.
ReplyDeleteVivi, since subtext is subjective I won't tell you that you shouldn't see it. But, I personally, have never, even for half a second, seen any indication whatsoever that it exists between them. I've seen plenty of indication that they care about each other as friends, but I've never seen anything to make me think there's something different. So I don't see why the writers *have* to realize it. The subtext isn't a fact. It's personal opinion. Some see it and some don't.
sf81387, but I have to wonder why did she feel the need to just appease the shippers now?
ReplyDeleteI think maybe because the shippers have more or less gone crazy with hatefulness and drama and "ZOMG I'm never going to watch this show again and somebody please kill Beth!" since news of the Hotch/Beth storyline broke.
If nothing is etched in stone, which nothing is when it comes to a television series, why not throw them a bone and calm them down a bit and allow them to be happy and enjoy what they enjoy about the show. It's harmless and if the series ends without it ever coming to fruition, well, it does. No harm, no foul.
Hotch and Prentiss have been a "thing" for a long time, while Beth just showed up. It's only fair for Messer to address what's been around for years.
ReplyDeleteThis is my opinion on this issue. Have a ship of choice. Don't want it on screen.
ReplyDeleteThere are more fans VERY UPSET with Erica and where they perceive she's about to lead those characters and the show than happy, just because a group of shippers have become outrageously obnoxious to everybody on set, out of the set and everywhere in between, with a part of that group adding hateful and spiteful to the list of traits they've displayed recently.
Who are those very upset fans?
1.- Fans of that ship who don't want under any circumstances to see that pairing featured on the show, that being because they adhere to the no-intra-team-romances rule and/or because they are aware that how they think the pairing should develop and how it would be developed probably will be miles apart.
2.- Fans that believed this would be a show without intra-team romances and were very happy with that being so until the very end and beyond.
3.- Fans of any other ship that features Hotch or Prentiss (or none of them for that matter), but of course with a different character. The fact that the only comments from the producers refer to one pairing, while theirs go completely unacknowledged only adds insult to injury.
And don't get the numbers wrong; H/P shippers that want the show to go there are a minority, because there is another pairing involving Hotch that is way bigger than theirs, with the group that doesn't want any pairing probably being the biggest.
How I see all this affecting the characters?
- Hotch: He's the boss, and he bends (never breaks) the FBI rules whenever he thinks is the right thing to do... Why? Not because of personal gain, not because he's a rule-breaker, and certainly not because he doesn't know the law and how the system works. Hotch's life is driven by his own set of priorities and ethics; first is Jack, no question here. Everything else is ruled by his acute sense of honor, property and professionalism; hooking up with ANY subordinate wouldn't be honorable, wouldn't be proper and would be highly unprofessional.
- Prentiss: A career woman, highly prepared, strong, independent, professional... Anyone can really think a woman like her is unable to have male co-workers and be friends with them without falling for them? Anyone can really think that Prentiss, that got to the BAU under suspect circumstances and overcame them, and that went through the S6 trauma and will overcome it, will allow herself to even think of her boss as anything else as her boss? She's too highly intelligent and I've not a single doubt that she knows what would happen to her: significant progression on her career halted, any respect the rest of the FBI community may have for her erased because "she's sleeping with the boss", and she'd be out of the BAU in no time flat**.
**Why out of the BAU? Their superiors never would allow them to work in the same unit. Some have said that that wasn't sure to happen but all of them forgot the most important thing: the BAU is one of the smallest, if not the smallest unit of the whole FBI making it nearly impossible for a pair to go unnoticed. Add that to the fact that their work is always questioned by defendants and their lawyers, and be very sure their superiors would transfer one asap.
**Why her instead of Hotch? He's seniority at the FBI and at the BAU; he's proven he makes sure the cases are treated by the book, thus they can go to trial; he's more reliable than her (probably the FBI bureaucrats see a bigger difference that we do), because even with his family in mortal peril he worked with the team, while she left everybody behind during the Doyle case; and because of his longer experience at the BAU, he probably is a more valuable asset.
If someone wants to explain how right or wrong they think I'm, please do!
Then she should probably address the "thing" between Hotch and JJ too because their "thing" has certainly been more evident than anything between Hotch and Prentiss IMO. And no, I never want to see Hotch and JJ together either. She should probably address the "thing" between Prentiss and Morgan too while she's at it. Why doesn't she? Because those shippers haven't been out there screaming and whining and tweeting hateful comments to cast and crew and any entertainment writer that would listen. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease.
ReplyDeleteI do wonder though if her comments are going to rile up the Hotch/JJ, Reid/Prentiss, and Morgan/Prentiss shippers. ; )
Sf81387 I couldn't agree with you more... I am a Morgan/prentiss shipper myself, but I have never rammed it down anyone's throat.... The beauty of this show is that the relationships between everyone are so precious... We have been told over and over again there would be no romance and therefore we are free to ship who ever we want, with the various special moments between many pairings... You put two characters together, you lose so many wonderful moments.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like bitching, moaning and wishing character death gets you what you want to hear... Part of me hopes other shippers do start to make their feelings known, but the other part of me knows that it will rip this fandom even further apart than it already is... Well done to those that are ruining this show!!
"TVLINE | Not that you’re producing The Bachelor here, but if the day comes for a workplace romance, would you say it’s more organic for Hotch to go with Prentiss versus JJ [were she to become single]?
ReplyDeleteYes. Yes."
Sorry peeps. JJ/Hotch not gonna happen, and Morgan/Prentiss not even on the radar.
T.V. That's the problem with HP shippers... So arrogant... And blind to other ships.... You think yours is the be all and end all.... TG and PB blatantly don't want it... The writers and actors have said over and over it won't happen.... Erica is just trying to shut all the shippers up sending the hateful messages to the crew for Beth to die...
ReplyDeleteYou know this whole appeasing thing is more and more annoying when I think of it. First, it implies that it's more important to keep one faction of the fandom happy, regardless of the fact that it has the direct opposite effect on people who don't want it. That prioritizes one section of fandom above another. On the flip side, if it's only appeasement, then she's giving the Hotch and Prentiss shippers false hope. Which wouldn't make them happy in the long run. (Well, at least I know if I shipped characters it would annoy me to be told something might happen only to find out it wasn't true) The only people that kind of behavior could please are the portion of the fandom who couldn't care less who Hotch or Prentiss are involved with. And, it won't particularly please them because, as I said, they don't care.
ReplyDeleteSo, appeasement does nothing but annoy people. If not now, then later.
Also, MariaV, regarding what you said about the integrity and intelligence of Hotch and Prentiss? I'm going to erect a 900 foot "AMEN" in solid gold letters to say how much I agree with you. I love that you have such a high opinion of them. It's one I share.
ReplyDeleteAdmin post:
ReplyDeleteReminder, be polite to other people DO NOT flame them or belittle their comments or comments will be deleted.
State your opinion, argue but remain polite.
This is the only warning you will all get before I delete posts.
Agreed with what Maria said about Hotch and Prentiss. A relationship between Hotch and Emily would not make sense because this is not something they would do BASE on who the characters are and not whatever (debatable) subtext some might see.
ReplyDeleteI hope the writers will keep their words and not write any inter-team romance on CM except if it is Morgan and Garcia because this relationship is the only one that really makes sense.
TV said :"Sorry peeps. JJ/Hotch not gonna happen, and Morgan/Prentiss not even on the radar."
ReplyDeleteAgreed, Hotch and JJ will never happen for the same reason stated by Maria about who Hotch is and we ca say the same thing about JJ, she is a professional who worked too hard to be in the BAU and be accepted as a profiler on the base of her talent and expertise. She would not dare have it questioned by sleeping with her boss because people would wonder if she got in the BAU because she is sleeping with Hotch.
As for Morgan and Emily, I can see them having a drunken night and go for it but Morgan is not the settling down type so Emily would know nothing would ever come out of it.
"A relationship between Hotch and Emily would not make sense because this is not something they would do BASE on who the characters are and not whatever (debatable) subtext some might see."
ReplyDeleteExactly. To put them together goes against the integrity of the characters. And, in this instance, I don't mean as in being people of integrity, but being true to the characters. I'm not going to lie, I will never be happy with a team pairing no matter what, as I've probably made abundantly clear. But, if either Hotch or Prentiss or anyone else who might get involved with Hotch, had been written as people who would behave that way, I would at least have to acknowledge that it's in keeping with their characters. Not this. I'd find it much more likely that Hotch would either step or Prentiss would choose to transfer to another team before they'd allow themselves to get involved with each other. And, then, the other one would say they wouldn't get involved anyway because they'd wouldn't want them to make that kind of sacrifice for them.
So, appeasement does nothing but annoy people. If not now, then later.
ReplyDeleteOh definitely. It especially annoys fans who care less about the shipping angles of shows, especially in a show that up until now never even hinted at romantic pairings and it's certainly never displayed any type of UST between it's characters. The LOST showrunners managed to appease and string along their shippers (Jaters and Skaters) for six years and in the end, neither ship ended up happily ever after. Showrunners appeasing shippers and stringing them along is done all the time. I guess it was too much to hope that this show would never take part in that particular game, but I refuse to let it ruin my enjoyment of the show.
I am actually looking forward to this episode tonight. I wouldn't neccesarily say I want them together (Besides, Erica already said Hotch is gonna be with Beth), but from what I've read, it's only supposed to be a friendship scene, so what is all this uproar for? It's no big deal to me... I'm always a sucker for a good, mushy, friend moment, so bring it on :)
ReplyDelete